After two and a half years of watching and discussing and checking Mary's character I have come to the conclusion that I simply do not find enough positive things about her to accept her as anything other than a very dark grey character or a villain. TAB has changed nothing about this perception, quite the contrary.

After the wedding we do not get a single moment in which John Watson seems to be happy in her company. And even before there are not many. For me this is maybe the most important evidence against her. 

 

I think the main difference that TAB makes is seeing a bit more of Sherlock's view of her. 

besleybean wrote:

Which to me seems a fairly positive one.

How so?

I think it kind of dismisses the idea that Sherlock is secretly plotting against Mary.  If he was, I'm sure that would come out in his mind palace, especially with a possible Moriarty connection.

SusiGo wrote:

After two and a half years of watching and discussing and checking Mary's character I have come to the conclusion that I simply do not find enough positive things about her to accept her as anything other than a very dark grey character or a villain. TAB has changed nothing about this perception, quite the contrary.

After the wedding we do not get a single moment in which John Watson seems to be happy in her company. And even before there are not many. For me this is maybe the most important evidence against her. 

 

Agreed. 
 

SusiGo wrote:

I do not think it would make him look like a fool. He had no way of knowing the snipers who were associated with Moriarty. I do not really care about how Mary is going as long as they do not turn her into a hero.

On the other hand, John might have known if he'd read the thumb drive. But, he didn't-- and I think that is what makes him look like someone acting out of a sense of misplaced loyalty (not to mention conflicted loyalties)  and an outmoded sense of honor that shouldn't apply to this situation. 

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

I do not think it would make him look like a fool. He had no way of knowing the snipers who were associated with Moriarty. I do not really care about how Mary is going as long as they do not turn her into a hero.

On the other hand, John might have known if he'd read the thumb drive. But, he didn't-- and I think that is what makes him look like someone acting out of a sense of misplaced loyalty (not to mention conflicted loyalties)  and an outmoded sense of honor that shouldn't apply to this situation. 

Yes. I must admit that I find John's behaviour in this episode much more difficult to understand than Sherlock's. No John Watson I have ever seen would stay with a woman who as good as killed Sherlock Holmes. This is one of the things that make HLV so difficult to accept for so many people.

besleybean wrote:

I think John just knew he loved Mary regardless and was determined to stay with her.

And, I'm sure that's where they'll go in season 4-- John finds out that Mary worked for Moriarty, but because he loves her soooooo much, he'll quite cheerfully side with her -- against Sherlock. 

As long as he has Mary, he can ignore anything in Mary's past. Makes John look like a stellar guy, doesn't it? 

SusiGo wrote:

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

I do not think it would make him look like a fool. He had no way of knowing the snipers who were associated with Moriarty. I do not really care about how Mary is going as long as they do not turn her into a hero.

On the other hand, John might have known if he'd read the thumb drive. But, he didn't-- and I think that is what makes him look like someone acting out of a sense of misplaced loyalty (not to mention conflicted loyalties)  and an outmoded sense of honor that shouldn't apply to this situation. 

Yes. I must admit that I find John's behaviour in this episode much more difficult to understand than Sherlock's. No John Watson I have ever seen would stay with a woman who as good as killed Sherlock Holmes. This is one of the things that make HLV so difficult to accept for so many people.

You know, my boss just said exactly this, just the other day. And he's a "casual" viewer! By the way, he loved the first two seasons, thought s3 was badly written and made no sense, hadn't even bothered with TAB. Straight white male small business owner-- and loves women. No, I mean, really loves women. 

besleybean wrote:

I think she possibly did work for Moriarty...so has Sherlock got that wrong?
But presumably Mycroft would know the truth.

BVut what does any of that matter? John has forgiven all-- and will side with Mary no matter what she does, or to whom she does it, right? I daresay, if that's the case, Mycroft wouldn't trust John as far as he could throw him. And Sherlock may choose not to confide in John either, knowing that John loves and trust Mary above all else. 
This is the picture we are painting of John Watson.