Vhanja wrote:

I'm wondering if her past will only be swept under the rug, or if we will learn more about it.

 
At the moment I expect the former. If you think of it, the Mofftiss never dealt with their cliffhangers too long.

Yes, with S 1, they didn't know if thy were getting a second series, so they went for an open cliffhanger...at least in that they hadn't a clue how to resolve it!
S 2&3 were negotiated together, hence them being able to address the cliffhanger how they chose. Even though that seemed to mean( actually like me) that they weren't really bothered in accurately showing how Sherlock survived the Fall.
I believe S 4 &5 have also been commissioned together...what this tells us about links between them, I don't know.
But anyhow sorry, getting back to Mary: we possibly have more info about her from TAB...
But as we don't know what the S 4 cliffhanger is going to be, it's still a bit up in the air.

EDIT: we cross posted.
I think the consequences could be for both Mary and Moriarty: her departure and his legacy.

Last edited by besleybean (June 19, 2016 5:56 pm)

Yes, I never really thought we would come back to that. But I'm rather disappointed hearing that. It really diminishes the morally strong character that they have built in the former seasons. But maybe that is just me.

I see it the other way around. It's part of his moral stand not to pry, and not to judge her from her past. (After all, he was in the war - he has probably done some rather horrible things himself). Instead, he decided to judge her based on the present and the two of them together, draw a line over a past that no one can do anything about now anyway and start again.

Whether we agree with such a way of thinking or not, I do see it as quite fitting for his character. John might be morally strong, but he is far from a saint. This is a man who shot an old man in the first episode, who couldn't tell his girlfriends apart and who hit a police super intendent for calling Sherlock a "weirdo" (which is not particularly rude, compared to what other people - John included - have said about Sherlock).

I think John comes across as morally strong because he is compared to Sherlock, who is... well, slightly off-kilter moral-wise when we first meet him. But John is certainly not an angel himself.

Vhanja wrote:

I see it the other way around. It's part of his moral stand not to pry, and not to judge her from her past. (After all, he was in the war - he has probably done some rather horrible things himself). Instead, he decided to judge her based on the present and the two of them together, draw a line over a past that no one can do anything about now anyway and start again.

Whether we agree with such a way of thinking or not, I do see it as quite fitting for his character. John might be morally strong, but he is far from a saint. This is a man who shot an old man in the first episode, who couldn't tell his girlfriends apart and who hit a police super intendent for calling Sherlock a "weirdo" (which is not particularly rude, compared to what other people - John included - have said about Sherlock).

I think John comes across as morally strong because he is compared to Sherlock, who is... well, slightly off-kilter moral-wise when we first meet him. But John is certainly not an angel himself.

We cross-posted.
The thing that does not sit right with me, Vhanja, is that it's not only about judging about the past, but very much about what she did in the present. And I will not go into the territory of distinguishing assasins and soldiers, we've been on that very often already.
Don't get me wrong, I know nobody on this show is an angel but the motives and the shooting victims are the key here.

In my opinion reading the USB isn't about judging Mary because of her past. I know it's not popular to talk about realism in connection with a show like "Sherlock", but I find it highly, highly unrealistic that someone who is in a situation that John's in in HLV would decide that no, he doesn't need to know about the previous life of the woman he married and who's pregnant with his child. Apart from the fact that John is solving crimes with Sherlock and therefore certainly posesses a certain kind of curiosity when it comes to other people's lives and motivations, this AGRA business is personal. Am I really supposed to believe that he really doesn't want or need to know? How can you spend your life with a person you don't really know anything about? Sorry, but morals or no morals, John would really have to be a true angel if he were just able to ignore all this.

To be honest, my first reaction when he said that he hadn't read it, was disappointment. Not for the character of John, but because I feel it's more of a clichè thing when it comes to writing. 

And I will still remain a bit on the fence until we see what happens in S4 (which seems to be quite a lot). But at the end of the day, if this ends up being John's decision, I'm fine with it.

Sherlock is the one pushing John towards Mary, so by forgiving her, he is definitly on Sherlock's side.

I missed that, Vhanja, so thanks very much for posting it! 

I think I can see what Amanda means.  I've always thought it was possible that John didn't read it.   We've seen him almost blindly trust Sherlock, despite evidence stacking up against him, despite a confession, even, John never really doubts him. I'm sometimes struck by how very little John knows of what's going on, and yet he doesn't seem to need to know.   I think he judges people on gut feeling.  He had a gut feeling about Sherlock when they met, and perhaps he has something similar about Mary, rightly or wrongly.   I think it's more difficult for us, because WE know that Sherlock's OK and John's faith is justified, but we don't know that with Mary.  There are lots of hints that he may have misjudged, but I can see why he would do that. 

This fact seems to strongly indicate that John is being sincere with Mary at Christmas. 

I agree, Liberty. I get the same impression - John doesn't have the cold, calculating side that Sherlock and Mary has. Or, at least, that isn't what he base his own decisions on. Look at ASiP - he is being warned several times against Sherlock, but still he stays. Which tells me he thrust his own gut instinct more than what other people tell him.