It's what we are shown and how.

(Trying slowly to come back to the forum, so I just jump right in.)

Thanks! Don't know where to start and/or what to say, but will hopefully find my way through all this.
And all these repetitions...... 

Last edited by Mattlocked (April 18, 2016 7:52 pm)

MATTLOCKED!!!   YAY!

I think you mean pictures like this one:

http://www.alltagsforschung.de/die-hase-ente-illusion/

They showed them to children. If shown in spring, the majority of the children saw a rabbit, probably because they associated the time of year with Easter. In autumn, the majority saw a duck. 

Just an example how your expectations shape your perception. After some time one sees both but it was about the first impression I suppose. 

It is how we perceive what we are shown 

e.g. in TAB we are shown a scene in which Mary asks her Husband to accompany him on an adventure. Me might read this as her pushing herself on our favorite detectve duo or as asking to be treated as an equal, depending on our perception or "filter".

Last edited by Lola Red (April 19, 2016 5:02 pm)

I think it's a mixed thing anyway - obviously we talk about Moftiss, but there other people involved, directors, actors, costume people, scenery people, camera people (you can tell that I'm really good on all the technical terms!), lighting people, even another writer!, that all could be putting a different slant on things, and have different agendas (I don't mean that in a bad way).  I mentioned over in the Johnlock debate thread - I think it's complicated and some of our different perceptions is because we've all got to make a coherent whole out of what we see and hear, including what we've been shown by all those different people. 

Even though Mark and Steven themselves seem to know each other very well and agree over all the decisions, I think it's still possible that they have slightly different takes too at times.   I'm reminded of the commentary for HLV, where Mark asks Steven about Mary's agenda (on topic, you see!), and I thought, surely that's something they have discussed and are both absolutely solid about?  But still, there seemed to be a little bit of room for questioning each other, even over such a hugely important issue.   And so if there's still room to question each other about the other's take on the character, it could be that the Mary of TEH (Mark) is not exactly the same person as the Mary of HLV (Steven).  (I don't mean just because of the reveal).

Last edited by Liberty (April 19, 2016 5:25 pm)

Oh, it's not disagreement and their takes align, but they've obviously thought their own thoughts about the character.  I'm talking about this bit here (from Arianne de Vere):

MARK: We had to think, has Mary herself made a decision to change her life? I mean, she meets John Watson and she thinks he’s a very decent man. Is she actually intending to go straight ...
SUE: I think so.
MARK: ... or is it always murky?
STEVEN: My feeling was [that], a bit like John, she can’t really keep away from that. She fits in with these two blokes because she’s got exactly the same problem. ‘I can spend six months without having an adventure, but not seven.’ What other wife is gonna be sending John out to play with Sherlock, and then tagging along? The way she behaves in The Sign of Three is preposterous for a bride at a wedding. She likes that world better.
MARK: In my head, though, she’s sort of like Callan. She’s a troubled assassin. I don’t want to think she’s being totally evil.
STEVEN: I think the Callan comparison’s terrific – the idea that she’s done bad things but not because that’s what she wants to do.

"My feeling was ...", "In my head ..", etc. It sounds as if it's the first time they've used the Callan comparism too - they agree on it, but they've obviously got their own very slightly different takes on it.  And they write different episodes.  It's no wonder that the audience might have different takes too - although I think our different takes are exaggerated!

(They both have a positive view of Mary, but one sees her as becoming good because she met the right man, whereas the other sees her as always being good underneath and perhaps manipulated into doing bad things).

It's also analysis , some people watch for plot and entertainment and don't really have interest or want to see deeper meaning.
For example Hitchcock ( the other master ) once explained how he directed and cut a scene in N by NW -the man and woman embrace and then I cut to the train going into the tunnel  it was explicitly sexual - so when comments linking trains and sex are mentioned concerning TEH some people are lost and others recognise the cliche  .Creators and directors put in layers and metaphors that are not necessarily for the general audiences conscious thought and even when explained are subjective.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (April 19, 2016 7:20 pm)

Besley . That explains the setting ( saw the Rtimes interview ) but says nothing to the creative direction or editing  , which as Hitchcock said is meaningful .

Liberty . They are referring to Callahan I think - dirty Harry .
SM says on Mary going straight - she can't keep away from that - meaning her assasin / agent side isn't left behind and also calls her behaviour preposterous . Not sure that bodes well for Mary.