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April 10, 2016 10:57 am  #3001


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I guess that there might be something fishy about the fetus?
Oh, and it was the scene at Baker Street, when Mary sits on the clients chair. Her jeans are turned up. That was what Harriet referred to.

Last edited by mrshouse (April 10, 2016 11:00 am)


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 11:01 am  #3002


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

You mean the "John is not the father"/ "Mary is not really pregnant" theories? How do they relate to the costumes?


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 11:03 am  #3003


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

As I said, when you see it as a flashback to the telly scene in TGG.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 11:12 am  #3004


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Is is explained how the turn-up theory works (maybe in one of the books, I don't own any)? Are any turn-ups on jeans representative of questionable parenthood or do they have to be turned up in a certain way? Since that is why we are taking a closer look at the costumes I'd like to understand how it works.

PS sorry, I did not see your edit until now


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 11:15 am  #3005


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

If there's anything more behind it, maybe from the books, I simply don't know.
It is a theory that floated around tumblr way before today.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 11:25 am  #3006


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Ok, thank you anyway.
Maybe Harriet can explain it to me when she is back online. I'm curious now about what else she saw in the costumes and how it all connects to Mary's character. 

Edit: this is the scene we were talking about, yes?
http://deducingbbcsherlock.tumblr.com/post/79422064668/carolyn-claire-petratodd

Last edited by Lola Red (April 10, 2016 11:30 am)


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 11:36 am  #3007


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

We know that the writers like to use the same lines in various contexts in order to emphasise their similarity. One of the best examples is Mycroft asking "How would you know?" with regard to Sherlock's sexual inexperience and Sherlock using the same line with regard to Mycroft's lack of friends. Or the "It did not work for me" regarding Molly's lipstick and John's moustache. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2016 11:55 am  #3008


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

True. I guess we will know next season what exactly it means in this case.

Anything else related to the costumes? 


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 12:41 pm  #3009


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

What strikes me (but is possibly not relevant, of course!) in that "client" scene, is that Mary is slightly masculine in the way she sits, she's wearing a coat a little like Sherlock's but in grey, and trousers, and has a slightly androgenous hairstyle (perhaps even a little like John's in that particular scene).  I don't mean that she looks masculine as such, but she looks more similar to the two of them than usual. 

Last edited by Liberty (April 10, 2016 2:16 pm)

 

April 10, 2016 2:07 pm  #3010


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Hm, interesting, Liberty.
But I think the haircut is the same as always? It's just different two times. At the restaurant and at the wedding, it's in waves.
Maybe it is not the actual clothing but how she moves? For example with spread legs although the belly is not apparent at that time.... I'm not sure either...


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 2:14 pm  #3011


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes, that's what I meant about the way she sits.  It's more traditional for women to cross legs, keep their knees close, etc. - not that it's any sort of rule, and of course women sit the way Mary does!  But it seems noticeable in that scene, for some reason.  And I meant hairstyle rather than haircut: I'll edit it, thanks!   It seems to look more androgynous and more like John's to me in that frontal shot - the same with the clothes (she looks quite feminine in other shots with the same clothes). 

Last edited by Liberty (April 10, 2016 2:16 pm)

 

April 10, 2016 4:25 pm  #3012


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I do think she is meant to be like John.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 10, 2016 4:59 pm  #3013


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

I do think she is meant to be like John.

Yes, I think that a lot of her character traits matches Sherlock and John quite well. Likes adventures and danger, have her own moral compass, arrogant, self-assured, sassy, strong, independent, not nice... it's like she's a mix of the two of them.


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April 10, 2016 6:08 pm  #3014


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Vhanja wrote:

...have her own moral compass

I think here is a fundamental difference between her and the boys. Her moral compass is different. She only does things that are good for her while John and Sherlock do things, also wrong things, that are good for the other one.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

April 10, 2016 6:11 pm  #3015


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think it would be very much against Canon to have a third character who is so similar to the two main characters and plays an equally important part in the narrative. Cannot remember seeing anything like this in any other adaptation or in Canon itself. And why should there be a need for this? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2016 6:13 pm  #3016


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Moftiss have never had a problem deviating from canon in this show.

I never said there was a need for it, if it was up to me, Mary would be killed of first five minutes of S4, Ep.1. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 10, 2016 6:14 pm  #3017


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Schmiezi wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

...have her own moral compass

I think here is a fundamental difference between her and the boys. Her moral compass is different. She only does things that are good for her while John and Sherlock do things, also wrong things, that are good for the other one.

I disagree. That is, the moral compass might be different, but she does think that benefits others as well. ("That is why there are people like me"). Killing for the "greater good". She also helped the crying neighbour while John just stood in the doorway not letting her in. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

April 10, 2016 6:14 pm  #3018


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well we don't know how long she's going to be around, yet.
I really don't think say 2 series out of 12 would be really that much.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 10, 2016 6:16 pm  #3019


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Susi, I agree. It's a difficult territory. It's as almost she gets as much character development space as Sherlock. And more than John.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 6:18 pm  #3020


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

mrshouse wrote:

Susi, I agree. It's a difficult territory. It's as almost she gets as much character development space as Sherlock. And more than John.

We don't know yet. Series isn't over and we don't know which character will get what amount of screen time and character development in the future. So we don't know how it will end up being divided.

Also, I think Sherlock has had far more character development than Mary. To be honest, I'm not sure I've seen much character development with Mary at all, only a shock-twist.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

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