Why Mary couldn´t be considered nice even before she shot Sherlock. Especially No. 3 rings very true:

http://silentauroriamthereal.tumblr.com/post/77968156703/ive-been-meaning-to-write-this-post-for-awhile-i

I don't think 'nice' is enough to cover it...she's complicated.
But John seems to love her and Sherlock like her.

I don't think she's nice either. Neither do I think Sherlock or John are nice.

I think some fans forget that are lot of the negative things that can be attributed to Mary prior to HLV can also be attributed to Sherlock or John. Sherlock is manipulative and arrogant. John is grumpy and "not nice". I think that after HLV, a lot of fans are very eager to dislike Mary (which are their right), and so read everything Mary has ever said or done through a very negative filter.

Just as they are also eager to like Sherlock and John (well... at least Sherlock), so read whatever they've said or done in a postiive filter. ("Yes, but he said/did that because of...").

I think her flaws (not counting her shooting Sherlock) makes her fit into the group of Sherlock and John quite nicely, as they share a lot of the same flaws themselves. (But, yes, I still would like to see her go).

I don't see that as an argument for or against anything. Neither have I seen anything to support that statemet either.

Last edited by Vhanja (April 8, 2016 8:34 pm)

Vhanja wrote:

I don't think she's nice either. Neither do I think Sherlock or John are nice.

I think some fans forget that are lot of the negative things that can be attributed to Mary prior to HLV can also be attributed to Sherlock or John. Sherlock is manipulative and arrogant. John is grumpy and "not nice". I think that after HLV, a lot of fans are very eager to dislike Mary (which are their right), and so read everything Mary has ever said or done through a very negative filter.

Just as they are also eager to like Sherlock and John (well... at least Sherlock), so read whatever they've said or done in a postiive filter. ("Yes, but he said/did that because of...").

I think her flaws (not counting her shooting Sherlock) makes her fit into the group of Sherlock and John quite nicely, as they share a lot of the same flaws themselves. (But, yes, I still would like to see her go).

She is also very different from Sherlock and John.
John would never manipulate her and boss her in front of other people.
Sherlock is caring enough to protect both her and John from the consequences of her past - she never does anything useful for him in turn (or for anyone else).

Nevertheless, when put to the test, John yields to his better instincts and takes the homeless Billy to the hospital to be tended to by the doctors. He might be grumpy, but underneath it all, he´s quite honorable and has a good character.
Mary, on the other hand, is nothing but supercilious coldness and a bunch of lies...

nakahara wrote:

Mary, on the other hand, is nothing but supercilious coldness and a bunch of lies...

If that is all you see, that confirms my previous post about viewing a character through a certain filter.

I saw that post, Nakahara, I found it quite on point. Great article, thanks for sharing!

Thank you, nakahara. Love this. It's not really balanced, but spot on how I feel about this character.
@Schmiezi, there's no such thing as Mary giving support...

Well, she did accept John's moustache for month obviously because she didn't want to hurt his feelings (What point would it have been to deny Sherlock's detuction?). And she made Sherlock and John go out together for a case because she knew that this is what they both needed.

Sorry, I don't want to offend anyone, but this above mentioned articel is ridiculous IMO. Everything Mary said or did is skewed in a negative way, pulling her to pieces. The author even says 'one could interpret some of her actions as nice but that can't be because she is evil' (no quotation, my interpretation). It's a fan article obviously from somebody who don't like Mary, so it's ok not to be objective, but this goes to far for my taste. Some arguments are very far-fetched, e.g. the scene in TSoT were she made John and Sherlock to go out for a case. She encourages John to keep up his friendship to Sherlock. How can one see that as something bad?

I very rarely participate at discussions like this because I tend to work myself up to much about opinions I don't share and (promise) I will go back into my read-only corner again after this. Just let me say one last thing, a suggestion. Folks, don't work yourself too much up about the character of Mary. Nobody needs to like her. But fact is, she is part of the story now, for how long, who knows. There is simply no use to spend too much energy into 'hating' her (sorry, can't find an other word at the moment), it won't change anything and you only kill youself the fun of the series. That's my opinion.