BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Questions about the English language

Vhanja · January 17, 2015 4:50 pm

English not being my first language, I do sometimes have some questions regarding words and phrases that confuse me. So I thought I'd start a thread where we can all ask questions and discuss the English language.

I have two questions:

1. What is the difference between a minister, priest and a vicar?
2. Can you call a man "brunette"? I've read several fanfics where Sherlock is described as being a "brunette", but I was convinced that was a term only used for women?

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 17, 2015 6:36 pm

Oh goodness, those exact questions have haunted me for years!

Ah-chie · January 17, 2015 11:12 pm

Perhaps I can help on Question #1...

A Minister is usually a general term that people use to describe someone of a Christian belief who authorized by a church to perform functions such as teaching of beliefs; leading services such as weddings, baptisms or funerals; or otherwise providing spiritual guidance to the community.

A Priest is more related to the Roman Catholic church or the Anglican church usually (there are of course Buddhist priests etc.).

A Vicar is a certain type of Priest in the Anglican Church - there are three types... Rectors, Vicars and Perpetual Curates. The distinction between the three comes from the different kinds of payments for the 3 types of Priests basically - Rectors get paid from greater and lesser tithes, while a vicar received only the lesser tithes and the Perpetual Curates only get a cash stipend.

I have also heard that in the old days Rectors were more common in rual areas and Vicars more common in urban areas.

-Val

Ah-chie · January 17, 2015 11:42 pm

I know that brunette comes from the french and is feminine where as the masculine form is brunet. So brunette actually means brown haired girl (woman). Brunet means brown haired boy or man but isn't really a term that is common in the English language.

It is much like Blonde and Blond - blonde is for women and blond is used for men. But brunet just never caught on in popular speech.

-Val

Vhanja · January 18, 2015 8:34 am

Thank you very much for clearing that up.

besleybean · January 18, 2015 8:45 am

Excellent.
Of course a minister can also be a member of parliament.
Just on the cultural nuances...
On Anglicanism, ' priest' could be used in England or Scotland but' vicar' would only ever be used in England. In Scotland they would all be known as ' priest' or 'rector'....possibly that is because of their employment contract but I actually had no idea on that.
I guess you could have any number of priests attached to a particular church, but there would only ever be one rector!
I can't remember from when I was in Wales...but it's very low church, so I would be surprised if priest was used.
Yes to me, 'minister' is very non-conformist...Church of Scotland clerics are definitely 'ministers'.

Last edited by besleybean (January 18, 2015 8:47 am)

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 18, 2015 8:48 am

Thank you Ah-chie!

So, a 'safe' option would be to just use the minister term, or have I misunderstood that?

besleybean · January 18, 2015 8:52 am

I would rather you didn't use that term if you're talking about an Anglican or Catholic...but that may just be a personal thing...we cross posted, so you maybe missed what I said.
I like precision and Anglican/RC ...would probably more likely be priest for me!

Last edited by besleybean (January 18, 2015 8:53 am)

Vhanja · January 18, 2015 8:55 am

So you can use both priest and vicar about an Anglican minister?

I would've thought priest was used more for ministers within protestantism.

Last edited by Vhanja (January 18, 2015 8:55 am)

besleybean · January 18, 2015 9:01 am

Ah now. Depends what you mean by protestantism!
Yes, I agree with you, hence my comment on the Calvinist Church of Scotland.
But Anglicanism strides the Catholic/Protestant divide.
The Church of England is the established church there...
It's the Church of Scotland up here,,,but sorry, that's just an aside.
As I said for me,(in protestantism I guess) all churches other than the Anglican are non-conformist...
As I said, maybe the language is just peculiar to me!
Hang on, I just re-read what you said, NO. Priest always for catholic and maybe Anglican but no other denomination.

Last edited by besleybean (January 18, 2015 9:03 am)

Vhanja · January 18, 2015 9:04 am

Ok, so what's a protestant minister called?

besleybean · January 18, 2015 9:05 am

Minister!
Ok let me try and explain again.
If I was in an Anglican church in England: I would call the cleric 'Priest' or 'Vicar'....I would never call him minister!
To me, minister would be Calvinist/Methodist etc.

Last edited by besleybean (January 18, 2015 9:09 am)

Vhanja · January 18, 2015 9:09 am

So basically it's:

Catholic: Priest
Anglo (England): Vicar
Protestant: Minister

Thanks.

besleybean · January 18, 2015 9:10 am

More or less!

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 18, 2015 9:35 am

Ah! Thank you! That makes sense to me!

English classes over here never really go indepth about this sort of thing. All we learned was the term 'Priest' if I remember correctly as a way to translate the kind we have here in Denmark.

Davina · January 18, 2015 10:46 am

But you can get Anglican priests as well. Don't worry it confuses us too. If the title here is 'Reverend' then it is 'vicar' and if it is 'Father' then it is 'priest'. In the Church of England the default for most people would be to say 'vicar'.

besleybean · January 18, 2015 10:58 am

But then you get the very high church Anglican clerics who are addressed as 'father'!
Can I just assure our non-native Brits/English speakers...
In my opinion...
Nobody over here knows what their country is called...
They know little about politics...
And they know virtually nothing about religion...even if they practise one of them!
Actually their history is pretty ropey, too!
Tee Hee.

Last edited by besleybean (January 18, 2015 11:00 am)

Davina · January 20, 2015 9:08 am

How very, very true BB. Ignorance is bliss...

saturnR · January 23, 2015 3:07 am

So with Westminster Abby. I know u have to be very important to be buried there but do they care if you are Catholic or Protestant or Atheist?

besleybean · January 23, 2015 6:50 am

What a good question, to which I don't know the technical answer. But I wouldn't have thought these days it would matter, if you were buried there...
Why, is that what Gloucester cathedral is supposed to be?!
Of course it was originally Roman Catholic...as were all English Christians at the time...
But then Henry III built his own version, which I assume is when it became part of the Church of England..
You would have to be rich or famous to at least get a plaque there...the bodies aren't necessarily there!
If you go to the official site, it has a list of all the famous buried there.
Though one may wonder why a Catholic wouldn't want to be buried in a Catholic church?

Last edited by besleybean (January 23, 2015 6:52 am)