BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Questions and ponderings about Sherlock

Russell · March 5, 2015 6:43 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Just because I didn't know where else to put this - I never noticed this!

http://ilovebenedict.tumblr.com/post/112721541530/anindoorkitty-no-touching

For whatever reason, that small detail made me love Sherlock just a little bit more.

Hee… I love it. (also recalls to mind their little glances/David's caution when the wedding party greets the line-up of guests outside the church)

Vhanja · March 9, 2015 8:56 pm

Quick question to native English speakers (or anyone else who know):

During TSoT, when Archie is hugging Sherlock, Sherlock says "lovely little village" before ushering the boy along.

What does that term mean?

SusiGo · March 9, 2015 8:59 pm

Archie has said immediately before "Beheadings" photos of which Sherlock has promised to show Archie if he behaves well at the wedding. Expecting that the mother will not be pleased, Sherlock pretends that it is the name of a village. This is at least how I understand it. Later on we hear Sherlock also say "There is a headless nun in for you".

Last edited by SusiGo (March 9, 2015 8:59 pm)

Vhanja · March 9, 2015 9:09 pm

Ah, ok. Never thought of it that way. I started thinking more complicated, about the term "It takes a village...", and thought it was some kind of cuddly name for a child.

Vhanja · March 9, 2015 9:12 pm

Also, same episode, Mary tells John (and Sherlock tells Mary) that they are just going to "run him". That's also a term I'm not familiar with. What does it mean to "run" someone?

SusiGo · March 9, 2015 9:13 pm

Here is the dialogue from ArianedeVere:

THE PRESENT. Archie is still hugging Sherlock.
MUM: He said you had some pictures for him, as a treat.
SHERLOCK: Er, yes ... (he pats Archie’s head) ... if he’s good.
ARCHIE (turning to look at his mum): Beheadings.
SHERLOCK (quickly): Lovely little village.
(He unwraps Archie from around him and gently pushes him towards the entrance.)
MUM: Hmm? (She looks down at Archie as they go inside.) What did you say?

Vhanja · March 9, 2015 9:19 pm

Yeah, makes sense. Thanks!

Also, in addition to the "run" question, I got another one (get a lot of these small questions when I rewatch episodes).

When John is visiting the commanding officer of the guardsmen, he presents himself as Captain Jack Watson, Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers. The officer immediately replies "Retired!"

How would he know that? There is no way he can know the status of all officers in the British military. And it's after that he looks at John's ID and only then he says that he's seen him before somewhere.

So how would he know that John is retired?

SusiGo · March 9, 2015 9:22 pm

This is the scene, again thanks to ArianedeVere. Reed is studying the ID before commenting on John's retirement. I suppose that he can see from the dates or other information that Joh is no active soldier anymore.

In an office nearby, an officer called Major Reed is sitting behind his desk and looking at John’s military ID card. He looks up at John who is sitting opposite him.
REED: Can I ask what this is in connection with?
JOHN: Private Bainbridge contacted us about a personal matter, sir.
REED: Nothing’s personal when it concerns my troops. What do you really want?
JOHN: I’m here on a legitimate enquiry.
REED: Press? Digging for some bloody Royal story or something?
JOHN (pointing at his ID card): No, sir, I’m Captain John Watson, Fifth Northumberland Fusiliers.
REED: Retired. You could be a used car salesman now, for all I know.

nakahara · March 9, 2015 9:24 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Also, same episode, Mary tells John (and Sherlock tells Mary) that they are just going to "run him". That's also a term I'm not familiar with. What does it mean to "run" someone?

I guess when you dog is bored at home, you take him out and "run" him (let him run around to make him tired).

That´s why I see Mary´s sentence as terribly condescending. She speaks about Sherlock as if he was a pet, grrr....

SusiGo · March 9, 2015 9:25 pm

Sounds convincing. Strangely enough, I could not find the exact expression in genereal or idiomatic dictionaries.

Last edited by SusiGo (March 9, 2015 9:28 pm)

Vhanja · March 9, 2015 9:49 pm

Well, Sherlock also tells Mary that he is going to run John.

I assumed it was something like "run him through a case".

Last edited by Vhanja (March 9, 2015 9:50 pm)

ukaunz · March 10, 2015 1:22 am

SusiGo wrote:
Here is the dialogue from ArianedeVere:

THE PRESENT. Archie is still hugging Sherlock.
MUM: He said you had some pictures for him, as a treat.
SHERLOCK: Er, yes ... (he pats Archie’s head) ... if he’s good.
ARCHIE (turning to look at his mum): Beheadings.
SHERLOCK (quickly): Lovely little village.
(He unwraps Archie from around him and gently pushes him towards the entrance.)
MUM: Hmm? (She looks down at Archie as they go inside.) What did you say?

I thought he was just changing the subject to distract her - talking about the lovely little village that the church was in, instead of talking about the weather as someone else might.

Vhanja · April 20, 2015 8:38 am

Ok, so always get more small questions when rewatching an episode. HoB this time:

1. Why does John cave in and hand Sherlock the cigarettes? For the puppy dog look?
2. Why does Sherlock says he will only send John to Dartmoor only to say he will come after all five seconds later?
3. While sitting outside talking to Fletcher about "the bet", Sherlock seems to be drinking beer and John a glass of coke - but Sherlock is the one driving straight after. Just seemed a bit odd. (Or perhaps you are allowed to drive in the UK after one beer, I don't know).

SusiGo · April 20, 2015 8:52 am

1. It might be a test to see if Sherlock really did not get hooked by Henry's case. It is the only explanation I can think of a the moment.

3. In the UK the legal blood alcohol limit is 0.8 per mille (compared to 0.5 in many other European countries) which means that a full-grown man like Sherlock should be able as well as permitted to drive after one beer. However, I do not remember the size of the beer in HoB. A pint is quite much. But still, I think he would be able to drive after that.

ukaunz · April 20, 2015 11:46 am

1. Maybe John just realises that Sherlck is an adult and it really is up to him whether he smokes or not?

2. Mark said during the HoB commentary that it was a nod to the ACD story - Holmes tells Sir Henry Baskerville and Watson that he is too busy with a blackmail case in London and can't go with them to Grimpen, but then he goes anyway and hides on the moor for several days. I guess Moftiss didn't want to do it that way... Actually it might might be easier to paste Ariane's transcript here:

Mark: “The other famous thing about the original story: because Doyle – although he brought him back – was sick of him, Sherlock Holmes disappears for the bulk of the story. He sends Doctor Watson down. Although he does actually go himself in secret, most of it is told by Doctor Watson. So it was a thing of having the fun of going through the process of saying, ‘Oh, I couldn’t possibly go,’ and then saying, ‘I wouldn’t miss this for the world!’ So hopefully if you know the story, for a Sherlock Holmes fan it’s like, ‘Oh, they’re not gonna ... oh, are they gonna not do it?’”

3. In the commentary it was also mentioned that the scenes were story-boarded in a different order. They were originally going to have Sherlock and John go straight to the facility and then go to the village. So they probably didn't take Sherlock's pint into account at that point. Plus, it was meant to be John that was going to drive but then it turned out Martin Freeman didn't have his license so Benedict/Sherlock had to do the driving. Again, from the transcript:

(As Sherlock and John arrive at Grimpen Village)
Steven: “Should we mention our re-sequencing here? We had a big, big, big argument about this bit, didn’t we? Principally between me and Sue! I didn’t like this idea initially – I like it now. Originally we went straight to the army base and went straight downstairs and saw all the cool stuff, and then we went to the village. And Sue said, ‘No, that’s wrong. We should go to the village first’.”

Last edited by ukaunz (April 20, 2015 11:55 am)

tonnaree · April 20, 2015 11:56 am

#3. If you pay close attention you can see that Sherlock never actually takes a swallow. He only lifts it to his mouth. He snagged a half empty glass that had been left on a table and I believe he had no intentions of drinking after someone. He just needed a prop.

Vhanja · April 20, 2015 12:02 pm

Thanks for your replies. For #2, it just doesn't make sense to me the way it's done. "Sorry, can't go. Oh, btw, I'll join", in the same frame of dialogue. It's just an odd way to do it. I never understood why he wouldn't go nor why he changed his mind. (I know about the Hound-part, of course, but the going-not going part was after he decided the case was interesting).

For #1, I think he was right in not giving in to Sherlock. That's what you do with an addict, and they may rage and roar at the time, but they will usually thank you later. They will never get rid of their addiction if people around them are enablers. So never quite got that one either.

For #3, I guess all explanations makes sense. Could be either one of them.

Kittyhawk · April 20, 2015 2:40 pm

I agree with Vhanja on the not going/going thing - doesn't make sense. And I'm with tonnaree on the beer - it's just a prop. Btw. - does Sherlock ever drink alkohol (apart from stag night)? I do wonder why, considering him complaining about his brain working to fast and being unable to switch off - seems the world's oldest legal downer would be just the thing... (nopes, I'm not condoning drug use here, just wondering)

Now for a nice factual question, which should have an easy answer, provided some Londoner is reading this: How are houses numbered in London? For even the producers have a problem with 3 doorbells for 221B, when for me (who grew up in Munich) it would be absolutely normal: In Munich the buildings are numbered - starting with 1 for the house closest to the city centre on the left-hand side of the road, continuing 3, 5, etc. (the even numbers are on the right side if you look away from the city centre). The B numbers are for houses that are later squeezed into a gap between two existing, already numbered, buildings, or possibly for when a building is divided and has now two separate entrances (or a big one is pulled down and two smaller ones built - every time you need an additional number that doesn't upset the whole system). The flats in a building don't have numbers or letters, there's just a namenext to the bell button and on the letterbox. So I would expect for 221A to be the next door to the left of 221B, and the sandwich shop to be either 221C or 223. Whereas the three flats in 221B are just distiguished by the names next to the bell buttons (and how is the mail delivered to those three flats? There's no letterbox, is there?)

So, how should the building/flats in it be numbered in London? According to Ariane DeVere's transcript: ...=small=10pt=small=10pt Steven admits that there is a “blatant improbability” with the front door, which has three doorbells and so really shouldn’t have the number of just one of those flats. “But how could you not have 221B on the door?” he says. ..."

Vhanja · April 20, 2015 2:56 pm

When it comes to alcohol, that seriously muddles your ability to think properly. I think that's why Sherlock rarely touches it.

I can only recall one occasion when he seemed to use alcohol as a "drug", and that was when he had his panic attack in HoB. He then had what looks like a glass of whisky.

As for the house number, I believe it would only be 221 on the door, and maybe a doorbell each for A, B and C. But maybe someone native can answer that better than me.

ukaunz · April 20, 2015 10:48 pm

I lived in London for a couple of years in various houses/flats, and from my experience the front doors have the main house number, they don't put A, B or C after the number — if the entrance is used by more than one flat (they sometimes have doorbells for the different flats, but none of the cheap houses I lived in had separate doorbells). If however the front door is used only for the main apartment it would possibly have A on it, and there would be separate entrances for the other flats - like in The Great Game, Joe's flat had an entrance around the side of the building. So with 221 Baker Street it doesn't make sense that the door would have B on it, because it is the entrance used by all three flats.

The going/not going thing doesn't make sense even with Mark's commentary explanation, but I guess they like Sherlock to behave in bizarre ways that no one else can comprehend.

John giving Sherlock his cigarettes - I had to re-watch that scene. I didn't think the puppy dog look was meant for the purpose of begging for the cigarettes, but was more that he was regretfully declining to go to Dartmoor. Maybe John thought Sherlock was begging, that he obviously was so desperate that he would inhale Henry's smoke, and that's why he handed them to him - probably didn't want Sherlock doing that in public Thankfully Sherlock doesn't need them now that he's stimulated by the case.

And the beer scene - yes tonnaree is right, I had forgotten that Sherlock picks up someone else's half empty pint and goes and sits down with it, using it as a prop (John brings his own coke when he comes out of the bar). A detail that I didn't remember until re-watching — always a good reason to watch again!

Last edited by ukaunz (April 20, 2015 10:50 pm)