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March 20, 2012 9:21 am  #101


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I really can't see anything in Sherlock's hands and I honestly don't think Moftiss would plant a clue that could only be spotted by watching it in slo-mo or freeze framing. I mean, the average person watching isn't going to do that, only us crazy Sherlockians would go to the trouble of doing that and they need to be able to appeal to everyone not just the die hard fans. So any clues that are in the episode are, in my opinion, right there staring us in the face, not hidden away. It's something we've all seen but not observed!


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March 20, 2012 9:26 am  #102


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Sherlock, I picked up on it, before I applied slo-mo, because I saw something. Maybe they don't want to let us pick up on it in slow-mo, but S IS doing weird stuff with his hands. But you have to take my word for it, that I clearly see the object, which I described. Significant or not -  I don't know. But S has something in his hand.

Last edited by sherlocked (March 20, 2012 9:28 am)

 

March 20, 2012 9:44 am  #103


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ok, I will describe the object, I see, a little more detailed: The metallic hook looks like one item of those little multi tool swiss knifes, like the one M left sticking in the 'poisoned' apple in S's appartment. I'm not going to interpret this. I'm just stating what I clearly see.

 

March 20, 2012 10:21 am  #104


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Sherlock, I see your problem with applying freeze frame and slo-mo on everything, because it might turn out false positives like continuity and production errors. For example many people have pointed out, that, when we see the very last of the strechter, just before it is about to enter the entrance of the hospital, the guy on the stretcher is NOT Sherlock - and they are right. The guy has no blood on his face, and if you freeze frame it, you can clearly see, that he is not Cumberbatch, who has a VERY distinctive mouth. The guy on the stretcher looks very much like one of the stuntmen, who did the jump. Same hair and shape of face. You can find all the material for this observation in 'The Final Problem' blog. Now, I have a real problem with the theory, that S switched position OUTSIDE the hospital with someone, who has rough similarities with him and is dressed identically, but we have never been introduced to before. So, since all this is only visible for a sec, I wonder, if they just used material, they shot for some reason and thought, nobody would pick up on it. On the other hand, they could just have left out that particular shot - and one of the helpers shields the face of whoever is on the stretcher with his hand. So I really don't know, what to make of it. As to the tiny metallic hook - to me it seems to be a real clue, since they do a close up shot of the hands and the handshake, and as I said, I (and others) saw something, which made us apply slo-mo in the first place. It's like looking with a magnifyer. What it does tell us, I don't know.

 

March 20, 2012 10:57 am  #105


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well, maybe junkie was not the most fortunate word... but we know he has a past with drugs. Anyway, it's just something I noticed yesterday and I thought it was strange. And maybe it's just because I keep trying to figure out what is it that makes Moriarty change his expression and his opinion about Sherlock in that exact moment.

About what you say you see in the handshake moment, believe me, I've watched it over and over again trying to see what you say you see and I really can't. I've stopped the DVD several times, played it in slow-mo and I can only see air...


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

http://lavellesmiscellany.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/irene-adler.jpg?w=490&h=200&crop=1
 

March 20, 2012 11:19 am  #106


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Irene, re : tiny hooked object - I guess, we have to be just patient and wait, wait, and wait..., lol! .. if anything comes of it. I wish, I could post a pic, but my lap top is too low quality to make good screen grabs, but on my dvd player I can see it clear and sharp - not blurry at all.

I agree with your observation re: Moriarty's change of expression. There must be something going on that very moment, which makes him realize, that he is beaten after all by Sherlock.M looks like he has finally seen the light - and is pleased in a strange way. S has proven himself to be extraordinary after all.

Last edited by sherlocked (March 20, 2012 11:25 am)

 

March 20, 2012 11:25 am  #107


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ok, this evening I'll try to make a capture from my dvd and post it here... my pc has quite good quality, maybe we can solve this problem (though not the final problem) 
And yes, I think something important must happen in that moment. Moriarty's change is quite surprising, I keep thinking there has to be some reason we don't get...


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

http://lavellesmiscellany.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/irene-adler.jpg?w=490&h=200&crop=1
 

March 20, 2012 11:31 am  #108


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes, Irene, I always believed, they are not just trash talking each other... something VERY specific is going on there...
Do you ever have the feeling, that we could use our collective energy for solving more important problems, lol? But I just don't like unsolved riddles... maybe that's one thing, we all have in common.

 

March 20, 2012 12:03 pm  #109


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

sherlocked wrote:

Yes, Irene, I always believed, they are not just trash talking each other... something VERY specific is going on there...
Do you ever have the feeling, that we could use our collective energy for solving more important problems, lol? But I just don't like unsolved riddles... maybe that's one thing, we all have in common.

I do have that feeling, yes... but anyway, I think as you say, it's the kind of unresolved riddle that makes me overthink a lot. And really, I'm more interested in knowing what happened in that moment than in how Sherlock survived the fall...


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

http://lavellesmiscellany.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/irene-adler.jpg?w=490&h=200&crop=1
 

March 20, 2012 12:04 pm  #110


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Interesting. I had always interpreted it that Moriarty had only seen that Sherlock was 'on the side of the angels' and therefore assumed he was incapable of stepping over certain boundaries - but in that moment he realised that Sherlock was entirely capable of doing so and therefore he had to reassess. I'll have to watch it again but I really don't think there is any more to it.


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March 20, 2012 12:27 pm  #111


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

sherlocked wrote:

Do you ever have the feeling, that we could use our collective energy for solving more important problems, lol? But I just don't like unsolved riddles... maybe that's one thing, we all have in common.

Yes definitely. Maybe we should form our own detective agency!


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March 20, 2012 12:30 pm  #112


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

He starts off the scene (when he first gets on the roof) with his hands in sight as he paces, his right hand is twitching but nothing in it.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/handsfirst.png
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/twitchy.png

This was hard to get but believe me he was twitching his fingers, nothing in his hands.

Then he stops and his hands are next seen going behind his back & joining; nothing there.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/handstalk.png

Then "beats like digits" - closed fist, nothing in either hand.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/beats.png

Certainly nothing when he lifts his hand up
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/uphere.png


Here is that screen capture Irene was talking about.and yes, I noticed that and it is hard to say what it is. Certainly more in the shape of a ball than a pen knife or anything metallic.
And it is gone straight afterwards which makes me wonder if it was just shadow, but it's not the right place for a shadow to be.
And honestly it is the only time I see anything possibly in his hands throughout the scene.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/handball.png


So up till now, he MAY have had something in his left hand; certainly wasn't a pen knife though. And it was only there for a brief period. I'll do the remainder shots next, this will then cover everytime we see Sherlock's hands in this scene until the shooting part.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 12:49 pm  #113


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Next, when he asks about the rhythm... his hands are just visible (silly Ben should sand still more! Very hard to get the split second one here) Trust me, nothing in his right hand, left hand is dubious.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/rhythmn.png


Then as Jim says Daylight Robbery
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/dsaylightrobbery.png

Status is the same really.

Walks toward edge to look over & left hand is in pocket, right hand was free and nothing there (couldn't capture the split second there) So if he did have a ball, it's now in his pocket. Still quite possible that he did have the ball.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/pocket.png

Then he turns just as Moiarty says "For me pleeeese" (oh I am sick of hearing that now! lol) Again, it is split second but nothing in either hand.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/4me2.png


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 12:54 pm  #114


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Check out this post on The Final Problem's Tumblr - it's a pretty comprehensive look at the "does Sherlock have something in his hands" question.

http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/post/17387286284/nothing-up-my-sleeve-unless-there-is

(I know I keep referencing The Final Problem's Tumblr but it really is an excellent collection of theories)


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I dislike being outnumbered. It makes for too much stupid in the room

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March 20, 2012 1:16 pm  #115


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

He then grabs Moriarty, certainly nothing in those shots to suggest he has anything in his hands (hence I am not going to post those ones, really there is no way he has anything at that point in time)
He steps up to jump, again it is brief but nothing there.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/stand2jump.png


Sherlock turns when asked 'what did I miss?" Hands empty.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/whatimiss.png


he walks over hands empty & then all the other hand shots are ones I have posted already.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/hand2.png
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/hand3.png
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/hand1.png


And as the shot happens, the hands are still shaking but are now being pulled toawrds Moriarty. Tight grip there, hardly a chance anything is in between those hands at all.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u204/bigshebanger/shot.png


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 1:22 pm  #116


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

sioneld, I've seen the sequence of grabs. Thanks for linking. All, I can say, is that I agree with most of the remarks, except one. In the last picture of that sequence, I can make out definitely the object I'm talking about all the time, only it is rather blurry and looks more like a reflection of light, while it appears much sharper on my screen. And a split second after that grab it can be seen even better. It's moving and turning a bit in S's hand. It's definitely a tiny hook. You have to take my word, that I'm  not under the influence of the Baskerville psychedelic fog,lol! Anyway, I can only prove it, if I can come up myself with a decent freeze. If I make any headway I'll let you all know. The significance of that is another thing altogether. I've come across another blog, where someone has also made out something in S's hand, and has quite a few intelligent thoughts about it. I'll will adress this later, since real life makes some urgent demands.   
kazza, thank you for the pictures!

Last edited by sherlocked (March 20, 2012 1:24 pm)

 

March 20, 2012 1:31 pm  #117


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Considering all that is going on at the time of the 'possible ball sighting', is there any real need for him to have it 'out' of hiding then anyway??? Was he going to 'bounce' Moriarty to death? Would have been easier to use his death frisbee.
It'd be pointless, distracting and possibly a give away of things to come. (Jim would surely wonder why he had such an item).
Now the idea that there's a pen knife in the hand later on kind of proves a point Sherlock made. "You can't kill an idea".
I hadn't seen anything about a pen knife anywhere until after it was posted that possibly the thing left at the flat was the pen knife rather than the 'IOU' written into the apple. (After all the apple wasn't left there, it was always there)

Again, I am not saying there is no pen knife, but there is no evidence in my eyes that there is a possibility of there being one in any hand.
Also, up there^^ somewhere I highlighted the fact that something may have been in the left hand. The point of that was for people to go through watching & test out heir theories of exactly where the item is, which hand and when does it swap to the other hand, etc etc. The suggestions are making Sherlock look like he's having a fit the way he'd have to be chopping & changing. He's concentrating on bigger things.
If there is a ball, it's safely tucked away till needed. I mean you'd hate to slip on a squash ball at that height huh?


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 1:36 pm  #118


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Irene_Adler wrote:

And yes, I think something important must happen in that moment. Moriarty's change is quite surprising, I keep thinking there has to be some reason we don't get...

I think the reason he changes is that he has nothing left, no more twists of the facts. He has twisted so much, everytime Sherlock says something that beats him, he twists the truth to try and beat Sherlock again and again.
In the end, he had no other twist except to kill himself, thus (in his eyes) killing Sherlock.
Sherlock said he would happily die if it meant Moriarty would die; Moriarty decided that as that was the only game plan left, he'd out-do Sherlock one more time and get in first.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 1:38 pm  #119


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

sherlocked wrote:

kazza, thank you for the pictures!

I went through it mainly for my benefit actually. I tried as hard as I could to find something, I tried believing it was there, but I still could not find it.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 20, 2012 1:45 pm  #120


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Thanks for posting them Kaz. I can definitely see something in his hand...it could be a squashed up rubber ball but the question is where did he put it later on?


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