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December 6, 2013 8:43 pm  #961


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

These have pretty much been my thoughts from the beginning. John needed to be deceived as much as Moriarty and the snipers for the deception to truly work. Poor John. . Mycroft was involved in planning from the start to.


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And I said "dangerous" and here you are.

You. It's always you. John Watson, you keep me right.

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December 11, 2013 8:45 pm  #962


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Why be gone for 2 years (besides the movie contract in New Zealand and the 3 year period in the cannon)?  Doyle never convincingly answered that question in "The Empty House" (llamas are in the Andes, not Tibet, and Mountpelier is in Vermont, not France...did Doyle make these typos to play with the readers???).  The answer had better be good.

 

December 11, 2013 8:50 pm  #963


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

This time?  Sherlock seeing off the snipers?


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December 14, 2013 6:38 pm  #964


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

The new trailer is interesting. John says that he doesn't care how he faked his death, but why he did it. That for me is the crux of the story. It has to be more than just protecting his friends

 

December 14, 2013 7:14 pm  #965


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well yeah...he then has to go and get the bad guys.


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December 15, 2013 10:21 am  #966


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

My guess is that before even planning the series, Moffat and Gatiss planned the fall first, therefore they could leave hints throughout the whole of the 2nd series. and as wacky as this idea may seem, it's the one out of all the posibbilities I am sticking to at the moment.

During the Hound of the Baskervilles, John talks to that professor woman in the lab where they talk about human cloning, during which Sherlock's eyes light up, it could be possible that sherlock managed to persuade the professor to clone him so that his clone would take the jump.

Reading John's blog the other day, Harry Knight mentioned something about wanting to help, could this hint that he had got into Baskerville to steal what was needed to clone Sherlock? crazy idea... I know!

But then, also thinking could it be possible for Moriarty to survive, could he have found out about the cloning too, when on the roof top just before Moriarty shoots himself, the chemitry between him and Sherlock just seems slightly off. they seem sort of dazed by the whole thing and Sherlock says "I am you, prepared to do anything, prepared to burn, prepared to do what ordinary people won't do" because I am adimant about this theory at the moment ( i jump from theory to theory every few days) this quote just seems to hint at the possibility at cloning.

Like I said a really wierd idea, but if anyone else has got any way to prove it wrong or anything like that I would be happy to hear it! Thank you!!! I am practically dying waiting to hear how he survived!


"What Life? I've been away"

'"Shut up John! I don't want everyone knowing I'm still alive"

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December 15, 2013 10:42 am  #967


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes to the writers planning it before.
They said they never again wanted to be put in the position where they were with Great Game, not knowing if they were getting another series!
They knew they were getting series 3!
I think the explanation will be very simple.


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December 20, 2013 6:11 pm  #968


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well the countdown to seeing TEH is almost here and I have got to get a theory down before January 1st.

So through RF-you have the assassins "hired" by Moriarty. ... one gets shot for touching Sherlock by saving him from the car....another gets shot when he saves Sherlock from the bus..

then you have Mrs. Hudson's Assassin-HE IS NOT IN THE files handed to John by Mycroft!

Mycroft very well have handed John the list of assassins that HE HIRED!

I.e. the assassin acrossed from Bart's is not there to shoot John but to shoot Moriarty if he touches Sherlock...

Sherlock and Moriarty shake hands...and Moriarty is shot.  Sherlock freaks out because he needs Moriarty ALIVE and Mycroft's assassin goes and kills him...so he has to jump..

the only problem with this theory is that Moriarty had the gun to his head..and was probably going to fake his death but the assassin took him out.. Sherlock is spinning around because he is looking for the shooter..

Still working on this one but here is a rough draft of it...thoughts?

Last edited by sirlockofthesher (December 20, 2013 6:13 pm)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."
 

January 1, 2014 7:44 pm  #969


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Evening all! I read through this thread a couple of weeks ago and have been theorizing ever since! Thanks to everybody for posting. I've been hatching a theory to try and explain why Sherlock fakes his death. As somebody else here pointed out, this is what John says in the advert for the new series. So let me apologise for the fact that most of my theory, if not all of it, has been mentioned here by different people - but tonight begins the new series and I wanted to get some feedback on my theory! Go easy on me, I'm just a humble, ordinary thinker and I'm new here! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


Mycroft & Sherlock plan to ‘out’ Moriarty and entice him into a game. Sherlock puts himself in the public eye, making sure he’s portrayed as a hero, so that Moriarty envies the public’s perception of Sherlock. (There are several instances that make me think Mycroft is behind it along with Sherlock. On the rooftop, Sherlock is not taken back by Moriarty’s “your brother and all the kings horses couldn’t...” and simply replies, “I’m not my brother.” Also, having left Kitty’s house he states “Moriarty has my whole life story” yet he hasn’t read any of the newspaper articles, he already knows that Mycroft has given JM Sherlock’s life story as bate.) Moriarty plans a big, public crime and gets himself off the hook showing that he is a genius too and brings the key-code out in the open, “advertising” it. There is now a face-off between Sherlock and Moriarty, which Mycroft and Sherlock had planned for. Mycroft’s aim is to get the key-code, Sherlock’s is simply to beat Moriarty.

Moriarty, on the other hand, is playing his own game – but he wants his game to bring about a more permanent end. He wants a fairy tale – a definitive ending. I wonder whether Sherlock’s motive is purely for the thrill of the game, while Moriarty has let Sherlock get to him; he hates the fact that Sherlock is indeed the ‘same’ as him. He is fuelled by exclusivity and is reluctant to accept the fact that he has met his match, as we see on the rooftop. Moriarty is obsessed with destroying Sherlock.

While Sherlock and Mycroft have planned to bring Moriarty out and into their game, they could not have planned for how Moriarty would play his game. He begins with the problems of the three break-ins, continues with the kidnapping but it’s all leading to “the final problem” – that is, Sherlock is going to die. MH & SH didn’t envisage this. (Mycroft says to John at the end - “I never intended, I never dreamt...” [to bring Sherlock harm.]) Sherlock needs to discover and solve this final problem – his intended death. Hence Sherlock is always improvising and thinking on his feet as Moriarty’s plan unfolds. He has started the game, but is not in control of how the game unfolds.

At what point did Sherlock realise Moriarty’s “final problem” was for Sherlock to die? It seems to be after he encounters Richard Brook. (I do believe that in the court toilet Sherlock wanted to motivate Kitty Riley to write an article to destroy Sherlock’s reputation. I think he wanted to give JM the impression that he had won whilst finding out the keycode in the meantime.)

Sherlock seems surprised when Richard Brook turns up, but then has a look of “ah I see” when Kitty explains he is Rich Brook. Perhaps it is now that Sherlock makes the connection between Rich Brook and Reichenbach. “The big conclusion of it all” says Watson but Sherlock realises it isn’t the big conclusion of it all and heads to Molly. This explains Sherlock trying to catch Moriarty in the flat – he knows that Moriarty wants him dead and panics. My suggestion is that it is here that Sherlock realises what “the final problem” is and then sets about ‘solving’ it.

He goes to Molly and announces to her “I think I’m going to die” – he’s now at work trying to solve the final problem. The dialogue that follows between Sherlock and Molly (likewise with Sherlock’s “note” on the roof) has caused me a bit of a headache. Does Sherlock lie when he says “I wasn’t everything that you think I am” to Molly and “It’s all true – what they’re saying about me” to John? My conclusion on this is that he is not confessing that he is a fraud in the sense that Donovan has accused him of being a fraud, but he is confessing to setting up Moriarty to play the game that is the Reichenbach Fall – and it has now escalated. It is possible that Sherlock is lying simply to get Molly on side and to make his suicide believable to John, but I don’t think it fits too well. The tears on the roof may even be real as Sherlock is shocked that this game has killed Moriarty. Just thinking out loud here!

So the episode is a game played from two angles; Sherlock’s and Moriarty’s. Mycroft is redundant once the keycode is exposed as being a myth. The game climaxes on the rooftop. Moriarty deals the first blow in revealing that the keycode doesn’t exist and he knew Sherlock would fall for it because he always wants things to be clever. (Don’t we, by the way?!) Sherlock now needs a way back in to the game, otherwise he is about to fake his death to no avail. Not only would it be to no avail, but it would only delay the death of JW/LS/Mrs. Hudson, as Moriarty unveils his plan. However, Sherlock senses a way back in to the game seeing that JM is ‘bored’ and “insane”. He holds him over the building to get the adrenaline pumping around JM’s body and hope that he gives something away. He does. “I’m certainly not going to do it.”

Having levelled the game (I say levelled, because they accept the “we’re the same” verdict), Sherlock is now going in for the victory and taunting JM. JM accepts that Sherlock has solved the final problem if the game stays the same – and sees the only way to win (or not to lose...) is to die. He is convinced that Sherlock will join him. Here we see that Sherlock wins as he manages to fake his death; JM has given up his life in vain.

Sherlock then calls John and leaves a ‘goodbye’ note, not a ‘suicide’ note. He needs to convince John that he really does die in order to save JW/LS/Mrs. hudson’s lives. The only one we know for certain who is aware that Sherlock’s death is faked is Molly. She ‘doesn’t count’ – or so Sherlock made it seem. I have no idea how they managed to fake it!

Sorry for the long-winded nature. Would welcome feedback!

Ordinary 


Blog: What We Stand to Gain (& Lose) In BBC's Sherlock - http://wp.me/p4daZK-7
 

January 2, 2014 3:38 am  #970


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ooooo yeah... He shoots and he scores!

 

January 2, 2014 5:20 am  #971


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I think Sherlock was actually telling Anderson the truth (why would he lie?  He himself said he likes to show off).  In any case, I was right about most all of it, except I missed the connection between the look-alike kidnapper and the dead body (doh).  Still, was a lot of fun and glad to see that it was a logical explanation.

Last edited by sj4iy (January 2, 2014 6:27 am)


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

January 2, 2014 11:02 am  #972


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I would be disappointed if it was the solution. "Only lies have detail"
I still think that there is a more elegant solution.
 

Last edited by Be (January 2, 2014 12:11 pm)

 

January 2, 2014 12:32 pm  #973


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Be wrote:

I would be disappointed if it was the solution. "Only lies have detail"
I still think that there is a more elegant solution.
 

I'm with you. I think we'll be given the true explanation in the next episode. Moffat and Gatiss were merely poking fun at all of our theorizing in the explanation given to Anderson, I think!


Blog: What We Stand to Gain (& Lose) In BBC's Sherlock - http://wp.me/p4daZK-7
 

January 2, 2014 12:33 pm  #974


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I wouldn't be so sure.


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January 2, 2014 6:46 pm  #975


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

besleybean wrote:

I wouldn't be so sure.

No?


Blog: What We Stand to Gain (& Lose) In BBC's Sherlock - http://wp.me/p4daZK-7
 

January 4, 2014 1:33 pm  #976


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ordinary wrote:

Be wrote:

I would be disappointed if it was the solution. "Only lies have detail"
I still think that there is a more elegant solution.
 

I'm with you. I think we'll be given the true explanation in the next episode. Moffat and Gatiss were merely poking fun at all of our theorizing in the explanation given to Anderson, I think!

But why? I'm perfectly fine with the soluation. They both know that after we made up the most outrageous theories for two years there won't be any solution that would truly satisfy everyone so they left enough space for further guessing. Clever.
I loved the scene with Anderson because it perfectly mirrors the simplicity of how he faked it and the confusion that it caused and that makes it brilliant. I was right about the "jumping sheet" (although I don't know the exact term for the item that we saw) and about the rubber ball. 

By the way, did anyone rewatch Reichenbach after TEH? 


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"Falling is just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination."

"Sherlock Holmes is a great man, and I think one day—if we’re very very lucky—he might even be a good one."

"Would you like to-"
"-have dinner?"
"-solve crimes?"
"Oh"



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January 4, 2014 2:01 pm  #977


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

i watched TRF after TEH, and everything seems to fit nicely and make sense.... the only thing that got me was that Sherlock wasnt expecting Moriarty to fake his death, so if his LAZARUS plan was going to be used and Moriarty was still alive then he would have seen he faked it... Sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead so he knew he was going to have to fake being dead... maybe if Moriarty hadnt killed himself Mycroft's sniper would intervene? or as weird as it may seem Mycroft may have been working with Moriarty to ensure Sherlock would still survive.

Lookingback at TRF everything seems to fit and I think it works really well, im satisfied with that theory even if it only included a few things from my theory! what confused me was Anderson's reaction and it left me thinking if it was the truth or not, if Anderson hadn't reacted th eway he did or if the scene wasnt put in with the train scene I would have fully believed it but they have cleverly left us all with tthat shaddow of doubt to keep us talking!!!


"What Life? I've been away"

'"Shut up John! I don't want everyone knowing I'm still alive"

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January 4, 2014 2:45 pm  #978


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Mary Me wrote:

But why? I'm perfectly fine with the soluation. 

My issue with the third solution (and it jumped out at me as I was watching it the first time, it was such a huge issue) is that it implies the entire 'faking my death' was to fool John into believing he was dead. That's not why he faked his death. He did it because Moriarty's men needed to believe he was dead in order to stop the three snipers. He stayed 'dead' so that he could unravel the web but he wouldn't have had to 'die' in the way that he did if he just wanted to disappear to take out the web.

The idea that the entire 'production' was purely to fool John is bollocks. Also, if Mycroft's men had eliminated the sniper thread, it wouldn't have been necessary for Sherlock to go through with the faked death after Moriarty died at all

This theory works perfectly well as a 'how I faked my death' if you don't consider the reasons WHY he was faking his death. And that's where the ginormous holes are for me.
 


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January 4, 2014 9:06 pm  #979


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

KKKKK wrote:

i watched TRF after TEH, and everything seems to fit nicely and make sense.... the only thing that got me was that Sherlock wasnt expecting Moriarty to fake his death, so if his LAZARUS plan was going to be used and Moriarty was still alive then he would have seen he faked it... Sherlock knew that Moriarty wanted him dead so he knew he was going to have to fake being dead... maybe if Moriarty hadnt killed himself Mycroft's sniper would intervene? or as weird as it may seem Mycroft may have been working with Moriarty to ensure Sherlock would still survive.

Lookingback at TRF everything seems to fit and I think it works really well, im satisfied with that theory even if it only included a few things from my theory! what confused me was Anderson's reaction and it left me thinking if it was the truth or not, if Anderson hadn't reacted th eway he did or if the scene wasnt put in with the train scene I would have fully believed it but they have cleverly left us all with tthat shaddow of doubt to keep us talking!!!

 
I think he's barking mad at that point, tbh XD

I think that Sherlock and Mycroft had planned a scenario where Moriarty wasn't there, hence the 13 different solutions.


__________________________________________________________________Bigby: Will you shut up?
Colin: Well, maybe if my throat wasn’t so parched, I wouldn’t have to keep talking.
Bigby: Wait, that doesn’t make se-
Coline: Just give me a drink, please.
 

January 4, 2014 10:13 pm  #980


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Wholocked wrote:

Mary Me wrote:

But why? I'm perfectly fine with the soluation. 

My issue with the third solution (and it jumped out at me as I was watching it the first time, it was such a huge issue) is that it implies the entire 'faking my death' was to fool John into believing he was dead. That's not why he faked his death. He did it because Moriarty's men needed to believe he was dead in order to stop the three snipers. He stayed 'dead' so that he could unravel the web but he wouldn't have had to 'die' in the way that he did if he just wanted to disappear to take out the web.

The idea that the entire 'production' was purely to fool John is bollocks. Also, if Mycroft's men had eliminated the sniper thread, it wouldn't have been necessary for Sherlock to go through with the faked death after Moriarty died at all

This theory works perfectly well as a 'how I faked my death' if you don't consider the reasons WHY he was faking his death. And that's where the ginormous holes are for me.
 

But this assumes the Watson sniper is the guy who is going to send the Moriarty recall code to the other two snipers.
This particular killing ground would have been one of many  selected by Sherlock/Mycroft during the early stages of the plan. Probably when Moriarty was still being held by Mycroft and Mycroft discovered that Moriartys weakness was Sherlock. I imagine Mycroft (who is after all the British Government and British Secret Service) would have had the site extensively surveyed for vantage points, blind spots, and angles of sight. I would also imagine that Mycroft would have been informed by Sherlock that the roof top location was a go before he invited Moriarty. Thereby giving Mycroft plenty of time to secure the location before any of Moriartys henchmen arrived. It would not take much for Mycrofts men to secure any advantageous  vantage points leaving the guy with the recall code an obstructed view. Once the recall guy was in position Mycroft/Sherlock selected the appropriate plan, which may have had a number of options depending on Moriartys actions. The recall guy saw what Mycroft/Sherlock wanted him to see; and sent the recall code.

As I see it the primary purpose of the operation would have been to convince Moriarty/Moriartys organisation that Sherlock was dead. Saving Watson and the others was not the primary goal.

I see this as a Mycroft operation against the Moriarty web using a willing  Sherlock as bait. Mycroft played Moriarty from the moment he gave away his weakness when being held prior to the Crown Jewels raid.

 

 

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