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November 21, 2013 6:57 am  #921


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I don't understand the last 2 points.


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November 22, 2013 2:18 am  #922


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

pt 4.  Red herring is something put in by a writer to mislead an audience. The reference to the mannequin body hanging at 221B is blatantly done by the writer. John asks sherlock, "so did you just talk to him then?" and Sherlock replies something along the lines that the case he was working on proves that the victim did not kill himself by hanging but was killed.  Implying that is why the mannequin was hangin at 221B-for use on a case whiile also making an obvious reference to a fake suicide. Something to which I interpret to be a red herring placed by the author.  A lot of theories out there believe that the mannequin was used in Sherlock's faked suicide and with such a blatant reference one can see why.  However, I do not believe the mannequin was used because this theory came too easy and does not detail how Sherlock still manages to get down to the sidewalk so quickly.

pt 5.  In the courthouse scene with Kitty, Sherlock says to her, "you repel me"  Meaning I can't stand you and you make me want to get away from your presence.  However, another definition of repel is to present an opposing force to; push back or away by a force:  An interesting and far less obvious way to foreshadow or elude to the methodology of how Sherlock faked his death. My theory prescribes to the belief that Sherlock used a rope/bungee to slow his descent or to repel down the rope when jumping off the building to slow his rate of descent.
Hope this clears up these two items for you.

Last edited by sirlockofthesher (November 22, 2013 2:21 am)


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Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."
 

November 22, 2013 4:59 am  #923


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Interesting theories.
But frankly, as for me, meanwhile I've reached the point - after nearly two years of theorizing - where I don't care any longer how Sherlock did it and which clues were given in the episode.
I. Just. Want. The. Solution.
Now.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

November 22, 2013 4:55 pm  #924


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

The side of the lorry folds down to act as a mesh trampoline -- that may be the big fat clue that Moffat/Gatiss said everybody missed.

I mean, has anyone ever seen a lorry like that in London? Well, I haven't. A few people have already offered this theory, but in the early days most of the solutions had to do with a mannequin with a Sherlock face mask, so maybe the producers didn't hear about it.   

What I would add is that by the time Sherlock jumps:

- There is ALREADY a body UNDER the trampoline / side of lorry (probably pushed out of a lower window)
- When the trampoline catches Sherlock, he gets up, jumps off it and hides among the onlookers. 
- The lorry folds back up to expose the dummy on the pavement. 
- That's what Watson sees.
- Watson gets knocked over by a cyclist as Sherlock takes the place of the dummy.
- Lorry rolls away. Now the sniper has a clear view of the real (alive) Sherlock lying on the pavement. 
- Watson, too, finds the real Sherlock on the pavement but never gets to take his pulse as the men beside him gently push his hand away (he touches somebody else's wrist though).

The fact that the lorry has moved away by the time Watson reaches Sherlock seems to confirm that it is integral to the solution.
                                           -----


The photos of the set show Benedict Cumberbatch jumping on a giant blue (bluescreen?) trampoline--so they can easily paint in the right background or film the details at a studio lot. 

The photo of him jumping with an umbrella is probably just to get a shot with minimum glare ie umbrella will get painted out.

Because Moriarty's head is so clean (no head wound) I don't believe he's dead, and even wonder if he's in on the whole thing i.e. there's a deeper puzzle... I wouldn't know where to start on that one though. 

Last edited by dangermouse (November 22, 2013 5:05 pm)

 

November 22, 2013 5:07 pm  #925


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

This has been said multiple times:
Moriarty is dead.
You don't see so much blood because it is a prime time TV show and they are not allowed to show too much.


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November 22, 2013 5:36 pm  #926


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Moriarty is dead.
Sherlock is not jumping with an umbrella. It's probably just Benedict, hanging there between shots, and it's raining.

Seriously: who are you guys?
Lurking around for a while, thinking about THE solution and some day just BREAK into any Sherlockian forum just to spread your oh-so-clever theories? And you honestly think we didn't have had all this some time before already?
Who are you? What about a nice introduction first - just like polite people would do when they enter a room full of strangers?
*end of rant*

Last edited by Mattlocked (November 22, 2013 5:42 pm)


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

November 22, 2013 5:44 pm  #927


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Possibly your point is more valid than my usual expression of disbelief,that some people don't listen to/read/watch any articles/clips/interviews where some of this stuff has been covered by the Sherlock team themselves!


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November 23, 2013 12:20 pm  #928


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I'm not sure if the hostility is addressed to me -- I posted under the topic "Go on then...what are your theories?" which the Admin introduces with the line:

"We've probably heard them all before but let's go through them again anyway, come on...you know you want to!"

Which seemed to say everyone is welcome...duplication is ok and actually expected.

I had no idea the reaction would be like this. I mean I knew that whatever I posted would sound familiar, except for one or two details that I genuinely hadn't seen anyone bring up. I would have liked for people to disprove my post point for point and refer me to links rather than just say "who do you think you are". That's just totally unexpected.

I'm just one of the millions of Sherlock viewers left stranded by the Season 2 finale. Unfortunately my friends aren't really into Sherlock so I thought to look for other like-minded people online. I didn't find any forums still open since I'm such a latecomer - except for this place.

I think I've falsely assumed that the BBC Sherlock forum would be the most inclusive and welcoming of all forums but it turns out it's just the opposite.

Last edited by dangermouse (November 23, 2013 12:21 pm)

 

November 23, 2013 12:43 pm  #929


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

No, you are right, this forum is probably the most welcoming forum; at least it was just MY opinion you could read above - surely I can't and don't talk for all the others around here.
Then last night you got my probably on the wrong foot. You know, there have been quite a lot of people during the last months just popping in, posting their thoughts, and loooong posts, without introduction or anything, and just vanish again.
So I maybe overreacted a bit yesterday when I read your post, which was, without introduction and anything, quite similar to those I mentioned. My post was directed to all the others and you just happend to be my "victim".
If you really want to join this group of crazy Sherlockians and talk about your obsession and have fun here, please accept my apologies. You are very welcome of course.


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

November 23, 2013 3:53 pm  #930


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

^ I also think that there are many (including myself) who have followed along the whole time but have not posted.  I think I even made a sign in a looong time ago and forgot it. But I got sick and have a lot of time on hands now. 

As for introductions-I am a private person and do not reveal personal information about myself online. But I am happy to discuss Sherlockian related items and pool my thoughts under the expanding recording that this forum represents also.  Let's not make this forum into the Diogenese club, it is very welcoming and should welcome new voices (even shy ones)


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Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."
 

November 23, 2013 4:08 pm  #931


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes. I never said I wanted to make this forum into the Diogenes Club.
And it is not about shy people. Not at all. It's about the annoying ones. Which one simply should ignore, just like I and most of us did in the past. So no wrong person can be hurt. 
You don't have to reveal anything about your real life if you don't want to. Still I think it's nice and some kind of "etiquette" to say "Hi" and introduce yourself.


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"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan
 

November 24, 2013 2:09 am  #932


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

drummerchickSH wrote:

There r 3 chalk lines on the floor and 2 people sitting on benches that arnt there after ...... Homeless net work and a soft landing maybe?!!! Xx

I see the bags and guy on the bench disappear with the  buses. 

Interesting on the two-bus homeless network theory.  I guess I fluctuate on it being a big bag with lots of people at the landing site on whether or not Sherlock knew Moriarty would take himself out. I interpret the shock on Sherlock's face is the quick deduction that he has to jump now and if he fails his friends die... not that Moriarty killed himself so I think the jump solution is going to be simple-discreet-and quick to set up and quick to disappear.

And like it was stated above..in less than 8 weeks I too will be informed that I was WRONG! in a text message from Sherlock


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Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."
 

November 26, 2013 8:55 pm  #933


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Thanks for taking the time to explain-- I really appreciate it. I do realize now that I should have introduced myself first. I also realize that the appropriate topic to post under would have been
'Truck theory', but most of the theories there are partial / abandoned.

I wonder if anyone can refer me to some links to a more fully formed truck theory because I would love to get some perspective on my own ideas. My sister introduced me to Sherlock but isn't into it enough (I really don't understand how this could be) to wonder how the fall happened. My friends are still catching up on all the great TV that's currently happening and haven't got round to seeing more than an episode or two of Sherlock so I can't talk to them. It's just so frustrating.
 

 

November 27, 2013 11:42 pm  #934


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Plans this elaborate seem a lot more plausible when you remember that Sherlock, not Moriarty, picked the building for the final confrontation. (Moriarty commended Sherlock on choosing a tall building for their showdown.) He would've had time to set things up. And Sherlock did know Moriarty was going to try and kill him. Yes, I'm starting to see how it's all possible.

sirlockofthesher, you are especially convincing. Kudos. 

 

November 28, 2013 5:38 am  #935


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

^ thank you...I have mulled this over for a looooong time.  I have read over so many different theories and to me they all seem to have holes-mainly the mechanism that assists Sherlock in the fall.  I read over my theory looking for holes.  I feel entering my theory into my family's competition is going to be iffy. Do I think I am completely right...uhm NO but I am trying to get as close as possible and close any holes that I see...so still tweaking it.

I believe that Sherlock knew Moriarty was suicidal-which does allow for a more complex set-up for the fall.  However, there is still the sniper out there that could be eyes anywhere (After M killed himself-when Sherlock was circling around "panicking" was S really looking for that sniper?..IDK but if he was it was to ensure that the sniper's eyes were located in a lower window S couldnt see at the time.  When S was talking to John, he could have spotted the sniper then but it almost seems to late in the situation to make any changes if the sniper is in a different more compromised position.)

What do think?


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Sherlock Holmes, "Perfectly sound analysis but I was hoping you'd go deeper."
 

December 2, 2013 3:31 pm  #936


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

First post, sorry if this has already been proposed.

My idea is that the title is the giveaway. The Reichenback Fall. The Fall of Richard Brook. I believe that Sherlock and Mycroft where the ones who forced Moriarty to the rooftop, not the other-way round. 

When they are talking Moriarty says that "Even your brother couldn't force me to talk" (paraphrase) and Sherlock replied, "but I'm not my Brother". Throughout the pretense was that Sherlock didn't know that Mycroft has Moriarty at one point, but it was said with no surprise at all. Sherlock knew.
The whole of the series is actually an elaborate trap to remove Moriarty. Sherlock became Moriarty’s nemesis not the other way round.  They manipulated things for him to be interesting to Moriarty and to get in his way.

Sherlock and Mycroft maneuvered him into killing himself. In Moriarty’s eyes he had to totally destroy (burn) Sherlock. So after discrediting Sherlock (in his eyes) he couldn’t just kill him because people would still believe in Sherlock. This wouldn’t be total victory (a bit like Sherlock in the Study in Pink, he was willing to die to prove himself correct). It was essential that Sherlock took his own life in a public way. What better way than a fall in public?
As soon as Sherlock laughed and pulled back from the edge what options where left to Moriarty
Kill him himself/sniper helps to prove Sherlock correct
Let him walk means he doesn’t have total victory and in time the Richard Brook persona would be under scrutiny.

Push him over the edge was be like having dirty hands, the same as when the cabbie pulling a gun is somehow cheap and not clever.

Kill his friends by sniper is actually the last thing he wants to do. If all 3 people are killed at the same time by a sniper than more questions are asked.

The only way that he can win everything that he wants to win is to kill himself. If he does then Sherlock either kills himself or lives being regarded as a murderer and even more discredited.

Even his interactions with Kitty were required. Sherlock needed to fall publicly so he tells the Sun “reporter” that "she repels him", and sets her on his path.

The publicity is the key and this is how Sherlock was out of character. He sought publicity so Moriarty had to destroy him publicly.

 

December 2, 2013 3:37 pm  #937


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I agree with most of this, but I don't actually think Sherlock sought publicity.


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December 2, 2013 3:42 pm  #938


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

besleybean wrote:

I agree with most of this, but I don't actually think Sherlock sought publicity.

I do. You see three press conferences in 1 episode. In all others he avoids them. That is where the hat comes from, trying to hide his face from cameras.

No body can make him do them. He even says the Reichenbach case was the one that made him. But made him what?

 

December 2, 2013 3:44 pm  #939


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I feel he's reluctantly thrown into the limelight, but I could be wrong...


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December 2, 2013 3:53 pm  #940


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Or it might be part of an overall plan to draw Moriarty out. One of the untypical things Sherlock does in TRF.
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

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