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March 7, 2012 2:57 am  #61


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

When people start listing things that are 'out of character' for Sherlock, they make this long list with things like ' asks Molly for help' & "cries' and 'phones instead of texts (which I don't believe is out of character but anyway..), etc etc.
But there's ONE main thing.

Now, once again I will go back to my theory: I believe the one thing is allowing himself to become a hero. Why would he do that? It's all part of a plan ; now that being said, it means that in a plan, you have to pretend things, you have to 'play out a character'.

So all those little things in the list are all part of the master plan. I don't think any of those things are 'out of character' because Sherlock would do those things to achieve a result.

To explain even better:
What's he done before in other shows that appear to be 'out of character'?? Just a few examples are:
- dressed up as a priest
- tricked a dead man's wife that he was a friend of the dead man
- pretended to be a security guard

So from those few things we see that he can be a good actor. So all of the 'out of character' things can now be seen as things he WOULD do in order to achieve a particular result.
Classic example - He manipulates Molly, always has (sorry to those who think he is genuinely warming to Molly, it's all an act)


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Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 7, 2012 5:15 am  #62


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

No-one seems to care about Rhododendron Ponticum.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 7, 2012 11:25 am  #63


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yeah like the bit in Blind Banker where he flatters Molly in order to get in to see the two bodies. I love that bit, you can see him just like waiting there for her to take the bait. He knows how to manipulate people and situations to get what he wants. A useful feature for a detective to have. Not great for making friends but ahh, who needs friends right?


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March 9, 2012 10:27 am  #64


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well, here I am again. There's an idea that has been making me go completely nuts. Since I first watched TRF, I've read a lot of theories from a lot of people about how Sherlock survived the fall. But now, since the first moment, I kept having this strange sensation that Sherlock really thought he could beat Moriarty and avoid the jump. I mean, he looks so scared when Moriarty kills himself, his conversation with John seems so real and his tears... I don't know, I have been overthinking this whole thing a lot and reading lots and lots of different opinions, and now I'm back to my initial idea. Sherlock was scared to jump because it was too risky, and he knew he could die. Surely he had something prepared just in case, but I don't think it's something really elaborated.

I don't know if a normal person can survive a fall like that without jumping in the truck or a safety net or something like that, but, have you ever considered the idea that he just survived the fall? Because we really don't know how long has it been since he jumped to John's and Mrs. Hudson's visit to the graveyard, so he could have been severely injured and be completely recovered some months later.

Anyway, surely it's stupid, but I can't stop thinking that he really was scared, because in the moment Moriarty kills himself, there's no one there he had to act for; they were alone, and Moriarty was dead. And his distress seemed pretty sincere.

I don't know if all this makes any sense, again, English is not my first language, I may express poorly... sorry 


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March 9, 2012 11:23 am  #65


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

The first time I watched it I felt that way too...his surprise at Moriarty killing himself and the emotion he shows on the phone call with John really does seem genuine, and you're right, there's no one left to "act" for up on the roof...that has always kind of confused me...like, why couldn't he just tell John the truth about what was going on and tell him he had to jump and go away for a while but it'd all be OK in the end and that he wasn't really going to die cause he'd made arrangements or whatever?? Unless he believed either that Moriarty had somehow faked his own death too, or that there were hidden cameras/microphones on the roof spying (which wouldn't be unlike Moriarty to do something like that).

I don't think you could survive a fall like that just landing on the ground...it's a pretty high building, you'd just bash your brains out or break tons of bones and end up paralysed or something. I know the scene in the graveyard could be quite a while after the jump, but supposing he had just been really lucky and survived, he'd still have scars on his face.

Also, I don't think Sherlock would leave anything to chance like that. I do think he was surprised that Moriarty shot himself, I don't think he was expecting that...and there are certain elements that he didn't know what to expect. For example, I don't think he knew that Moriarty had these assasins and that they would kills his friends if he didn't jump, but he knew that Moriarty must have had SOMETHING, something to bargain with, something that would force him into doing it, even if he didn't know exactly what it would be. So to that end I think the surprise and emotion is probably genuine. But he knew Moriarty wanted him to kill himself right after the Richard Brook scene, that's when it all became clear in his mind and when he went to see Molly at the hospital to put the wheels in motion, and he planned every aspect of his own death which is why he called the shots and named the place for their final confrontation.

Yeah, I don't think he knew EVERY ASPECT of what was going to happen because I mean, we all know he's good but he can't actually predict the future so there will have been surprises for him on the roof. Also, no matter how prepared you'd been beforehand there would still be that moment of fear and nerves right before you jumped...that thought of "what if it doesn't work", so I think he would have been scared before doing it.

The emotion in the phone call to John...whether Sherlock likes it or not he does have emotions and he does care about his "friends", otherwise when Moriarty explained the situation he could have just said "I don't have friends" and not really cared whether Moriarty killed them or not...but he does care. Ultimately he's a good person and a kind person even if he's not empathetic or socially adept. Sherlock cares about John more than he realises.

Although can anyone answer why he couldn't have just said in his phone call "Moriarty is going to kill you unless I jump off this roof...but it's OK I've made arrangements with Molly and although you'll see me fall off and 'die', I won't actually be dead. I'll be whisked away and everything will be staged. I'll have to go away for quite a while and I won't be able to see you or keep in touch....but I will come back eventually. Just be patient and hold on." It would have saved John all that heartache!! (although obviously wouldn't have been as dramatic).


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March 9, 2012 12:00 pm  #66


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Although can anyone answer why he couldn't have just said in his phone call "Moriarty is going to kill you unless I jump off this roof...but it's OK I've made arrangements with Molly and although you'll see me fall off and 'die', I won't actually be dead. I'll be whisked away and everything will be staged. I'll have to go away for quite a while and I won't be able to see you or keep in touch....but I will come back eventually. Just be patient and hold on." It would have saved John all that heartache!! (although obviously wouldn't have been as dramatic).

It's my thought that if he believed there was a continuing reason to keep up the suicide facade (and remember Moriarty is not solo; he's an organisation; he's "more than a man" as the cabbie says in Study in Pink) then he would need the reactions of John et al to be entirely genuine. Actual grief is always going to be more convincing than fake grief; and if those close to him knew Sherlock was alive, it would show in some way. It's in the nature of a maestro directing a performance, and John, Mrs Hudson, Lestrade, Mycroft, everyone is involved in the 'show' even if they are unaware. He's setting the stage for the rest of Moriarty's people. There are still 3 assassins and god knows who else out there and someone will have taken the reigns (Moran) when Moriarty died. The jump is only successful if they believe he has died; else they may go back to completing the job and kill his friends after all.


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March 9, 2012 12:19 pm  #67


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Irene_Adler wrote:

Well, here I am again. There's an idea that has been making me go completely nuts. Since I first watched TRF, I've read a lot of theories from a lot of people about how Sherlock survived the fall. But now, since the first moment, I kept having this strange sensation that Sherlock really thought he could beat Moriarty and avoid the jump. I mean, he looks so scared when Moriarty kills himself, his conversation with John seems so real and his tears... I don't know, I have been overthinking this whole thing a lot and reading lots and lots of different opinions, and now I'm back to my initial idea. Sherlock was scared to jump because it was too risky, and he knew he could die. Surely he had something prepared just in case, but I don't think it's something really elaborated.

I don't know if a normal person can survive a fall like that without jumping in the truck or a safety net or something like that, but, have you ever considered the idea that he just survived the fall? Because we really don't know how long has it been since he jumped to John's and Mrs. Hudson's visit to the graveyard, so he could have been severely injured and be completely recovered some months later.

Anyway, surely it's stupid, but I can't stop thinking that he really was scared, because in the moment Moriarty kills himself, there's no one there he had to act for; they were alone, and Moriarty was dead. And his distress seemed pretty sincere.

I don't know if all this makes any sense, again, English is not my first language, I may express poorly... sorry 

Your English is fine.

No-one could survive that jump without using something to break the fall. Not even Sherlock.

I think Sherlock DID believe he wouldn't have to jump by outsmarting Moriarty.
When Moriarty killed himself, that wasn't possible. Watching anyone kill themselves right in front of you would be unnerving. Even for Sherlock. So I think the emotion he displayed was one of ' omg that was horrific'. Remember he was just engaged in a battle of minds with this man. That takes a lot of concentration and brain power, even for Sherlock.
So he has to regather his thoughts.

Scared? Remember back to Study in Pink. He was quite prepared to take the capsule, he didn't show fright then even though he could have killed himself if he hadn't chosen correctly.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 12:34 pm  #68


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

There r loads of points in the episode but I can't fit them all togather ,


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March 9, 2012 12:39 pm  #69


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

OK, now I am going to turn the table just a fraction.

All the theories look interesting and certainly have merit in them all. Lots of possibilities have been looked at. BUT (of course) there is something that has not been approached yet, even by me and I thought I'd looked at nearly everything, lol.

Please bear with me, this will be a bit of my "mind palace workings' here, because I haven't worked it out yet! I remember thinking about it ages ago, but never explored it any further.

OK, in my theory, Sherlock had everything planned. In other theories he had planned some things but one thing is common, he PLANNED to jump from the building to fake his death if he needed to.
Fine.
So what was he expecting Moriarty to be doing while he took this leap?
Because surely anyone can see, that Moriarty would have looked and seen the faking in action. 
If he planned on him being dead by killing him, that would have made the jump unnecessary surely? He didn't know about the assassins that Moriarty claimed were waiting to bump off his friends.
I doubt he would have planned to kill Moriarty, after all he had no weapon that we know of, and that would have been noisy in the location that HE had chosen. Also, Sherlock doesn't kill people. That's ordinary!

Was he planning on making Moriarty jump? His network people below could easily overcome Moriarty when he landed in *whatever it was they used for catching falling bodies in this show* but what then? The police were after Sherlock, not good old Moriarty aka Rich Brook.

Let's list what we know or can assume:
- Sherlock asked Molly for help with something. Something to do with him dying.
- Sherlock doesn't want John involved or even as a witness on the roof. He'd sent him off to check on a 'dying' Mrs Hudson. Surely he thought John would come back? (Or did he??)
- Sherlock chose the roof for this confrontation, not Moriarty.
- Sherlock doesn't die from jumping off the building which means he had something set up down below.

Hmmm. The key to this must be in 'what was he planning for Moriarty?'

This will take me all weekend to consider! I'll try to pop back and give updated thoughts.

Last edited by kazza474 (March 9, 2012 12:42 pm)


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 1:38 pm  #70


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Yes, that's true. If Moriarty was still alive...he would have watched the jump and probably noticed the "faking"...although not neccessarily because wasn't the assassin that was supposed to kill John watching the jump too, and he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary?? Or was his view obscured by the small building thingy?

Also, how did they know that John would come back to St Barts? How did the assassin/Moriarty know to wait for John at St Barts...why not wait for him at Baker Street, that would seem more logical?


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March 9, 2012 1:49 pm  #71


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I believe Sherlock was the one who organised the call about Mrs Hudson, so why would they have thought he would be anywhere but with Sherlock?

Hmm, so does Moriarty think John would be with Sherlock?

Arrrgghh, shhhhh more questions than answers now!
At this point, I think Moftiss would be laughing; I think we're overthinking stuff now. BUT I do think we need to consider these things to work out exactly what Sherlock thought was going to happen.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 4:31 pm  #72


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

kazza474 wrote:

Your English is fine.

Thanks  That's something I worry about all the time, please feel free to correct my grammar or ortography any time (that would be really helpful for me, I'm trying to improve my written English)


kazza474 wrote:

No-one could survive that jump without using something to break the fall. Not even Sherlock.

That's what I was thinking, but anyway, I wasn't sure if it was at least possible, though improbable.


kazza474 wrote:

Scared? Remember back to Study in Pink. He was quite prepared to take the capsule, he didn't show fright then even though he could have killed himself if he hadn't chosen correctly.

I think the Sherlock we see in Study in Pink is a quite different Sherlock than the one we see in Reichenbach; in the first case, I think he was sure he had chosen correctly and was willing to prove it. In Reichenbach, he has no choice but to jump if he wants to save his friends, it's not only about himself. Anyway, in Reichenbach I think Moriarty killing himself is a twist in his plan that he didn't expect and so he becomes nervous and scared.

kazza474 wrote:

Hmmm. The key to this must be in 'what was he planning for Moriarty?'

I absolutely agree. This must be the key but, as you said, what was he planning for Moriarty ALIVE. I mean, it can't be something like falling into the truck because Moriarty would have seen that... and his friends would have been killed anyway.

I also think Moftiss must be laughing out loud if they read all the things we poor "stupid" people (as Sherlock would consider us) think and write... Oh my God, I hate them!! 


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Waiting for a crazy man in a blue box to fall from the sky...

But the thing is, we've taken away all the things that can possibly have happened, so I suppose the only thing that's left, even though it seems really weird, must be the thing that did happen, in fact. (Miss Marple)

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March 9, 2012 6:17 pm  #73


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I know, I hate them and love them at the same time. They're sick twisted brillliant geniuses.


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March 9, 2012 8:11 pm  #74


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Hello everybody,
I'm new to this interesting forum, but since the thread seems to be still active, I'd like to add a couple of thoughts.

First a couple of basics: In the first three episodes, as much as I liked them (for me the wit and intelligence of 'A Study in Pink' was never surpassed by the following episodes), the plotting was a little slapdash and not always logical. But, hey, they couldn't know at the time, that Sherlock would be such a corker. When the whole enterprise was a smashing success, they could plan further into the future. Which means, there is probably hardly anything random in the story line and the clues of the last three episodes. And MoGiss, being old fashioned whodunnit fans would be fair, and all the clues, we need , are to be seen onscreen. With a lot of red herrings of course.

Ok, so how did Sherlock fake his death? Mostly I agree with kazza474: Sherlock was not being played, he was the player all the time. He would have never allowed to be made into a celebrity, unless there was a purpose behind that.The outlines, if not the details of the plan to fake his death and go undercover was in place much earlier than we are led to believe. Molly, who has a lot of emotional intelligence ,realizes quite early, that there is something off with Sherlock. The possibility of having to jump must have been forseen by Sherlock. So he arranged a meeting with Moriarty at a place he is familiar with, and where Molly can help, as he asked her to do. Chalk lines marked, where exactly the garbage truck had to be parked. He then either jumps on top of the truck, which might have been prepared to make it safer, or, as kazza  wrote, some helpers (probably the homeless brigade)pull out a sheet like fire fighters to catch him, and then throw it onto the truck, which drives away quickly. In his telephone conversation with John he makes sure, that John remains at a place, where he can't see the actual impact. When John is out on the pavement, there is just enough time to arrange the scene, John finally gets to see. No dummies, clones, stuntmen or dead bodies from the morgue involved here. Keep it simple. And it's obvious, why Sherlock is genuinely scared,when he realizes, he really has to jump in order to save his friends: This is dangerous and could go wrong easily.
Now to the point, where I differ from kazza and most other opinions. Sherlock doesn't have to play dead and make his pulse completely disappear with a rubber ball under his arm (which is not possible anyway). On the contrary, John must be probably there to testify, that Sherlock is unconscious and badly injured, but still ALIVE, when he is whisked away on a stretcher. Why? Because a dead Sherlock would have to remain where he is, until a CSI team is finished with their investigations. But a barely but still living Sherlock has to get medical attention as soon as possible.His death in the hospital can be announced later.  If a dead body is removed just like that - a lot of people, including John, would have smelled a rat (I have to say here, that the medical helpers don't treat Sherlock in a very professional first aid way, but, hey, John is in shock and won't remember, and tv writers can't get everything right).
So did Sherlock just act half dead or was there more involved? MoGiss said, there was a very uncharacteristical behaviour of Sherlock and a clue, everybody overlooked. Now, there was a lot of uncharacteristical behavior of Sherlock in that episode, but something very specific struck me as odd and unlikely. But the clue first: Fairy tales of the Grimm Brothers are kind of a leitmotif of the episode. There is the book of the kids, the Hänsel and Gretel allusion, Moriarty's remark when he has tea with Sherlock, that every fairy tale needs a good villain. On the roof top he speaks again of fairy tales and pretty 'grim' tales, which is again a hint to the Grimm Brothers. But he doesn't only talk.He takes an apple, carves the enigmatic letters and takes a bite himself in order to form the O. Now think Snow White: She is poisoned by her evil stepmother, who takes a bite herself from the good side of the apple and feeds Snow White the manipulated bad part. Snow White appeares to be dead, is mourned and buried by her friends, the dwarfs, but comes back to life after a fall out of the casket causes her to spit out the poisoned chunk of the apple. The apple might be a hint of the authors for the audience and ties in neatly with the hint to the Rhododendron Ponticum. Most people dismissed that clue as a red herring, but I think, that is hasty.There might even be an inside joke of MoGiss. After all, Lord Blackwater from the 2009 Sherlock Holmes movie used honey made from Rhododendron pollen to fake his death. In the 21rst century you can't sell a fake death like Lord Blackwater's to an audience, but Sherlock could have used something like that for slowing his heart beat and pulse down, making himself unconscious and apparently near death. Another early symptom of Rhododendron Ponticum poison is sniffling and watery eyes. I think, Sherlock's tears, when he talks to John, are very much out of character.He certainly IS capable of strong emotions, but in this situation he had to be VERY cool and concentrated to avoid mistakes.His and the life of his friends depended on him keeping his cool. His tears would have been understandable,if he really was a fraud about to commit suicide, but he was in the middle of a very complex operation. He would have never succumbed to tears and emotions. I think,he took something like the Rhododendron poison, while still on the roof. This substance takes a while to kick in; taking it after the jump might have been too late. The sniffling and the tears might have been a sign that the drug kicked in.
Having written all this, I have to say, that the way Sherlock faked his death is by far not the biggest riddle for me. Much more interesting is the question, who helped him and who pulled the strings. Of course Molly and the homeless brigade were involved at ground zero, but Mycroft was probably pulling the strings of the whole operation in the background  for quite some time. I also think, that Lestrade knew, what was going on. He is no fool and has a very good understanding of Sherlock's psyche. He would not believe for one minute, that Sherlock is a fraud. And Sherlock himself names him as a friend, even after he had been arrested by Lestrade.
What remains a complete mystery to me are the interactions between Sherlock and Moriarty. My feeling is, that we haven't even scratched the surface there. What is Moriarty trying to tell Sherlock with the apple and the carving? Why does he owe Sherlock something? Why the graffity with the letters? Weren't the graffity artists Sherlocks friends and helpers?  What is Moriatry trying to communicate to Sherlock so desparately on the roof? What does Sherlock give him, when they apparently shake hands (there IS something small, Sherlock passes to Moriarty, just before he kills himself)? Why is Moriarty saying again, the final problem for both of them is staying alive? Why another allusion to fairy tales and the Grimm Brothers? Why is he suddenly peaceful and says 'Bless you' in a VERY different demeanor than in ALL his previous interactions with Sherlock?  AND WHY; THE HECK DOES HE KILL HIMSELF OUT OF THE BLUE? I have not the foggiest idea about any of these questions .

Last edited by sherlocked (March 9, 2012 8:26 pm)

 

March 9, 2012 9:15 pm  #75


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I have always thought it odd that Sherlock texted that he had something of Moriarty's that he might want back. Now this could not be referring to the key code because Sherlock thinks that this is entrusted to his memory, so how can he 'give it back'? Moriarty knows the code because it was he who tapped it out in the first place, it's not as if he would have forgotten it. The question remains: why did Moriarty divulge the code to Sherlock in the first place. Now I know later he tells Sherlock that there is no code and Sherlock acts surprised but is he really? Moriarty insists earlier in the flat that Sherlock tells him what he already knows. Why? Just to see if Sherlock has worked it out? Or swallowed the bait? Sherlock says that he doesn't like riddles, this is, of course nonsense.

I think the thing that is out of character, apart from the publicity thing, is that Sherlock appears to let Moriarty take the lead. I say 'appears' advisedly because I do not think he does actually let Moriarty take the lead at all. Remember in The Great Game Sherlock establishes how very important it is to get ahead of Moriarty- not that he knew it was Moriarty at the time. He buys himself time at every opportunity and I cannot see why this would change later. 

Moriarty admits to only one failing, which is that he is 'so changeable'. This is his psychopathic conceit. He believes himself to be cleverer than anyone else, even Sherlock. This is a serious miscalculation on his part. He does actually appear to be somewhat mentally fragile when sitting on the edge of the roof and when he first speaks to Sherlock, in that he expresses his intense boredom with life, especially as he now sees Sherlock as 'boring'.

Sherlock chooses exactly where the denouement with Moriarty will take place. There must be a clear, overriding requirement for it to be on the roof of St. Barts. It allows his fall, presumed suicide, to be clearly, publically witnessed. It also prevents other people from intervening. It is a completely controlled situation.

The other thing I find strange is that he drops his phone to the roof before he jumps. The only reasons I can think for doing this rather than putting it in his pocket are: to prevent it being damaged or completely broken and perhaps so someone can retrieve it from the roof later. The other thought is that maybe the phone was on the whole way through his conversation with Moriarty so that someone could listen in & maybe record it.

I know what I have written does not go into how he survived the fall but I still think they are points and observations worth pondering over.


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March 9, 2012 9:37 pm  #76


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

#1 Welcome. Interesting to see a like minded person on some points. Please don't take any of my answering as argumentative etc, I have all the manners and graces of Sherlock at times

sherlocked wrote:

the plotting was a little slapdash and not always logical. .................being old fashioned whodunnit fans would be fair, and all the clues, we need , are to be seen onscreen. With a lot of red herrings of course.

Slapdash? Not logical? I can't see that. What I do see is a lot of people disregarding the first series as the original stories are nowhere near as well known, so a lot of the subtleties are missed; which you could interpret as an illogical sequence of events at times. But interesting opinion.

Chalk lines marked, ...

read back, not chalk lines (I think I posted pics on this one). Brickwork, but that's ok. He used what was there as a reference point. Very resourcefull & less noticeable

Because a dead Sherlock would have to remain where he is, until a CSI team is finished with their investigations.

Ummm, there's no-one there who is "in charge" - no police etc. The group organised by Sherlock can do as they please. No-one can stop them really. They have parts to act out, and they did it well.  Again, because they are 'acting out their plan' there is no necessity for any 'correctness' in what they do to this body, dead or alive. I don't think it's anything to do with bad scriptwriting or directing or anything. It's all intentional; they don't care what correct procedure may dictate. This is actually the biggest clue to the fact that this was all staged. People are being 'too clever' about correct medical protocol. Damn protocol, this isn't a medical show!

the Rhododendron Ponticum. ....... Sherlock could have used something like that for slowing his heart beat and pulse down, making himself unconscious and apparently near death. Another early symptom of Rhododendron Ponticum poison is sniffling and watery eyes.

I like the idea of the use of this drug however I doubt he made himself unconscious. That would mean he had no control over what was happening

I also think, that Lestrade knew, what was going on. He is no fool and has a very good understanding of Sherlock's psyche. He would not believe for one minute, that Sherlock is a fraud. And Sherlock himself names him as a friend, even after he had been arrested by Lestrade.

I doubt Lestrade ever knows what is really going on with regards to Sherlock. And Sherlock doubts it too! However, Lestrade is a 'new found' friend of sorts. He alerted John by phone that they would be coming to arrest Sherlock. John tells Sherlock 'at least you have one friend left on the force'. Even so, that is no reason for Sherlock to let him in on the plan. There'd be no reason to do so.

.....the apple and the carving? Why does he owe Sherlock something? Why the graffity with the letters?

I believe the IOU is just a taunt repeated over and over again, in many different ways. Moriarty is in some ways a child and a bully. And that's what bullies do, 'chant' over and over again.

Why is he suddenly peaceful and says 'Bless you' in a VERY different demeanor than in ALL his previous interactions with Sherlock?  AND WHY; THE HECK DOES HE KILL HIMSELF OUT OF THE BLUE? I have not the foggiest idea about any of these questions .

Good question. Why do insane people do anything when they have finally reached the end of their life? Sherlock drove him to that state, he was imploding. Using up every emotion he had left in him, till he had no more.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 9:54 pm  #77


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Davina wrote:

I have always thought it odd that Sherlock texted that he had something of Moriarty's that he might want back. Now this could not be referring to the key code because Sherlock thinks that this is entrusted to his memory, so how can he 'give it back'? Moriarty knows the code because it was he who tapped it out in the first place, it's not as if he would have forgotten it. The question remains: why did Moriarty divulge the code to Sherlock in the first place. Now I know later he tells Sherlock that there is no code and Sherlock acts surprised but is he really? Moriarty insists earlier in the flat that Sherlock tells him what he already knows. Why? Just to see if Sherlock has worked it out? Or swallowed the bait? Sherlock says that he doesn't like riddles, this is, of course nonsense.

How do you lure someone somewhere? You tell them you have something they would like/want. 'Giving' anything is not really necessary, it's just a good ploy(how dare Sherlock lie to him!). Moriarty's questioning of Sherlock to repeat what he knows is just a power play; just a controlling thing that the egomaniac needs. If he can say "tell me blah blah blah" and then Sherlock tells him " blah blah blah" , Moriarty feels in control.

I think the thing that is out of character, apart from the publicity thing, is that Sherlock appears to let Moriarty take the lead. I say 'appears' advisedly because I do not think he does actually let Moriarty take the lead at all. Remember in The Great Game Sherlock establishes how very important it is to get ahead of Moriarty- not that he knew it was Moriarty at the time. He buys himself time at every opportunity and I cannot see why this would change later.

All part of the controlling struggle I just posted about. Sherlock is allowing Moriarty to believe he is in control.

The other thing I find strange is that he drops his phone to the roof before he jumps.

The action of destroying/leaving behind something so 'personal' as a mobile phone etc is a very common one in suicide victims.
They are NOT going to need it anymore. It means NOTHING to them whatsoever. There is NO reason to keep it with them. Sherlock does this to be utterly convincing. He wants to leave no doubt in people's minds that he was killing himself.

You're doing well in your theories/thoughts.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 10:18 pm  #78


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ha, kazza, you ARE argumentative, lol! But, that's, what a forum is there for.
Answering some of your points:

How the writers work the original stories, with whom I am quite familar, into the modernized plot, is absolutely admirable, however, I could point out many lose ends and things, which don't make a lot of sense in the first episodes, which have nothing to do with the original stories. BUT I think, in the las 3 episodes, everything is finely tuned and might be important, even, if we don't see it yet.

Thank you for pointing out the brick work. To me it looked like chalk lines, but brick work makes a lot more sense and isn't suspicious.

I think, the missing CSI investigation of a dead body  cannot be dismissed as  just a tell tale sign, that everything was staged. Of course it was staged. We know that already, and the helpers could do for a while as they pleased. But later a lot of questions would have been asked. John, after the first shock, would become very suspicious. There might have been witnesses, who were outsiders. But a Sherlock, who is still alive, but terribly injured, has to be rushed away on a stretcher as soon as possible. Nothing suspicious about that (My quibble about the missing first aid protocol was minor and that point is not terribly important, but no CSI, when you have a dead body, would be a major glitch, which cannot be explained awy easily). And to announce that he died later would have been perfectly natural as well. My point: Sherlock does not have to appear dead, mortally injured and near death is enough. AND it makes the theory, that dummies or dead bodies from the morgue were used, very unlikely. But I think, we don't disagree on that point.

Later more about Moriarty's strange actions. While, what you say about his implosion makes a lot of sense, I think, his cryptic talk indicates, there's more behind the surface.

Last edited by sherlocked (March 9, 2012 10:30 pm)

 

March 9, 2012 10:37 pm  #79


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well I see no point in everyone posting the same stuff.
" Oh I agree"
"so do I"
"Oh you are right"

May as well have a blog!


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

March 9, 2012 10:45 pm  #80


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I absolutely agree with you there. No arguments, no fun. I didn't take anything of your reply personally! 

 

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