BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Go on then...what are your theories?

besleybean · January 12, 2013 2:15 pm

My theories for Great Game?
I thought the stand off would be broken either by Mycroft and his people, or bungled by Lestrade and his people...
As for this, I think Sherlock's survival will be quickly and simply explained. Then we can swiftly get to the Reunion, which for me, is of much more interest.

Davina · January 12, 2013 4:33 pm

I still think that convincing John that Sherlock is dead, having jumped from St. Bart's rooftop, is relatively easy. If you witness someone jumping from the roof of a tall building, particularly a person who has indicated that they intend to commit suicide, even if you do not see the entirety of their jump, your brain will tell you that the person who jumped from the roof is the person who has hit the ground. Your brain will fill in the gaps. Your brain will not assume that something else has happened in the section of the fall that your eyes have not witnessed.

If it were an object that was thrown from the roof, with part of its trajectory blocked from view, your brain would still assume that the object that hit the ground was the object that was thrown from the roof.

As another example: you have a box with a hole at the top into which you can place a small ball. There is a hole at the bottom of the box that the ball can exit. If you put the ball into the box at the top and a ball that looks just like the one you have put into the entry hole comes out of the exit hole your brain will assume that it is the same ball. Now I tell you that the box is arranged so that when the ball is inserted at the top it is held but a mechanism allows another ball to come from the exit. The ball that exit clearly is NOT the same ball but your brain assumed it was. We are used to dealing with simple visual cause and effect. Playing with these assumptions, that our brains make all the time, is the basis for all illusion and 'magic tricks'.

Mary Me · January 12, 2013 4:36 pm

besleybean wrote:
My theories for Great Game?
I thought the stand off would be broken either by Mycroft and his people, or bungled by Lestrade and his people...

We can learn from that. If you're in an awkward situation, trust the Bee Gees to get you out.

Hera · January 12, 2013 5:27 pm

Davina: You are quite correct. I also like the thought that the words "magic trick" directly refer to how magic tricks normally work and how we viewers are fooled by using the same techniques - and that they don't only mean "it's faked".

I haven't read all the pages, so - again - sorry, if I repeat something or if I spell something out which is obvious to everybody, but me.

What intrigues me is how Moriarty reacts on the roof. He looks at Sherlock, realizes something and then commits suicide. His suicide changes everything, again, and Sherlock is forced to jump, after all. Moriarty is crazy, so obviously he kills himself to win the game. Without suicide he wouldn't have won, which means Moriarty is convinced, that Sherlock really can make him call the killers off. His words and behaviour confirm this. But what on earth could Sherlock do to persuade Moriarty to call the killers off? ... Sherlock assumes that Moriarty would rather call the killers off than let happen what Sherlock threatens to do. And he is right, because Moriarty doesn't let it go that far. Before Sherlock can do whatever it is he has threatened to do, Moriarty has already killed himself. With Moriarty dead, there is no more calling off and Sherlock has to jump after all... But back to Sherlock's plan. Either he threatened to be killed by someone else, then there would be no suicide and he would not die in disgrace, but as hero (not that he cared about that... but Moriarty does!) or he threatened to kill someone Moriarty is close to (his word choice makes me think that: "You are like me"), although I can't really see that.
Last question: how does Moriarty realize this within only seconds? My guess is a laser point on Sherlock's forehead, which is also Moriarty-style ("You are like me")... but who knows...

As for the "OOC Sherlock moment" I have no idea, or rather too many. I'm sure, Sherlock knew something from the very beginning, but I'm not at all sure, to what extent his knowledge went.

Isn't it cool, that a tv show has us guessing and discussing that much?

Last edited by Hera (January 12, 2013 5:30 pm)

besleybean · January 12, 2013 5:58 pm

Aaargh! So much to address.
I am really uncertain of the details, but let me try and pick my way through this.
1. I still think it is outside Kitty's that Sherlock finally realises Moriarty's game: he's bringing Sherlock crashing down in the public eye and the final solution will be to get Sherlock to confess his guilt and then to commit suicide.
2. While John is seeing Mycroft and after when he sleeps at Bart's, Sherlock arranges his escape plan, if he cannot escape Moriarty's trap. We know he asks Molly for help.It will be essential for John to believe Sherlock is dead. Sherlock knows he will have to disappear to bring Moriarty's network down.
3.. I don't know if it was Moriarty or Sherlock who designed to have John taken away from Bart's, presumably Sherlock. He knew he would not have long before John was back.
4. Sherlock joins Moriarty on the roof for their final face off. He apparently doesn't know the key code was fake. He appears not to have known about the snipers(unless he has worked this out)and to be genuinely surprised by Moriarty's suicide. But he does seem to recognise this is the signal to the snipers and so he has to be seen to jump.
5. I do think it's him on the pavement and I do think the cyclist was hired to knock John over.
6. Don't know if the rubber ball is relevant.
7. Not sure why Sherlock throws down his phone.
8. I do think the tears may partly be acting.
9. I do think the significant line is to do with the magic trick. I think he is trying to say: this is not all it seems.

Mary Me · January 12, 2013 6:23 pm

I don't think the tears may be acting! Why should he? - He was too far away from John for him to notice.
The situation was difficult. Sherlock probably knew, that he would be seperated from John for a long time and it was definitely hard to tell him a lie! He cares about John.

Hera · January 12, 2013 6:33 pm

besleybean wrote:
4. Sherlock joins Moriarty on the roof for their final face off. He apparently doesn't know the key code was fake. He appears not to have known about the snipers(unless he has worked this out)and to be genuinely surprised by Moriarty's suicide. But he does seem to recognise this is the signal to the snipers and so he has to be seen to jump.

Agreed!

Sherlock must have known, that Moriarty has something in his hands that could convince Sherlock to jump. He doesn't know what this is (or maybe he does, but it's not necessarily for him to do so), but he is prepared. - That makes it possible for him to be genuinely surprised by variable things and still have planned it all. I think, some viewers are confused, because they don't think both (surprise and plan) is possible at the same time.

besleybean wrote:
5. I do think it's him on the pavement and I do think the cyclist was hired to knock John over.

I'm not entirely sure about the first part, because I can't see him surviving the fall... although, in the last scene, we see he is hurt at least somewhat (the neck!), so I guess you are right after all. Agreed on the cyclist, too. I love the cyclist part, actually, I don't know why.

besleybean wrote:
6. Don't know if the rubber ball is relevant.

I have no idea about that either.

besleybean wrote:
7. Not sure why Sherlock throws down his phone.

Me neither. But I see it being relevant in Ep7.

besleybean wrote:
9. I do think the significant line is to do with the magic trick. I think he is trying to say: this is not all it seems.

Agreed. I can also imagine it being a clue for the viewers, as explained above: "We are playing with your perception!"

besleybean · January 12, 2013 6:33 pm

Sorry Hera, we cross posted.
Yes Sherlock does care about John and he won't like lying to him or want to be separated from him.
But remember, at this point, he knows John is a target, so he has to be convincing.
I think the phone(or something else) may be recording his message and John would be able to hear the tears in Sherlock's voice anyway. He does say the call is his note.

Last edited by besleybean (January 12, 2013 6:35 pm)

Mary Me · January 13, 2013 10:22 am

Okaay, that could be an explanation.
I generally wonder if any of these theories we made up here is true.

kazza474 · January 13, 2013 10:37 am

Hera wrote:
I'm not entirely sure about the first part, because I can't see him surviving the fall... although, in the last scene, we see he is hurt at least somewhat (the neck!), so I guess you are right after all. Agreed on the cyclist, too. I love the cyclist part, actually, I don't know why.

This is a huge misconception.
Ben has a mole on his neck; someone decided it was a wound or something & it's gone from there.
His neck is fine.

As for the rest, I don't have the time or energy right now, sorry.

besleybean · January 13, 2013 10:44 am

Or possibly you're just patient!

kazza474 · January 13, 2013 10:50 am

besleybean wrote:
Or possibly you're just patient!

Nooooo I think that would be the furtherest word from my mind right now, lol.

Let's just say I am stepping away .....

besleybean · January 13, 2013 11:01 am

Possibly wise.

Hera · January 13, 2013 11:55 am

kazza474 wrote:
Hera wrote:
I'm not entirely sure about the first part, because I can't see him surviving the fall... although, in the last scene, we see he is hurt at least somewhat (the neck!), so I guess you are right after all. Agreed on the cyclist, too. I love the cyclist part, actually, I don't know why.
This is a huge misconception.
Ben has a mole on his neck; someone decided it was a wound or something & it's gone from there.
His neck is fine.

Oh sorry, I really didn't know that. I've only "known" Ben for a few weeks (well, I may have seen him before, but it never registered in my brain ) and my PC screen is really not the best and from that angle, it justed seemed to be a wound or something. I didn't read that anywhere, it was my own "reading too much in everything"-brain.

Last edited by Hera (January 13, 2013 11:56 am)

kazza474 · January 13, 2013 12:15 pm

Hera wrote:
Oh sorry, I really didn't know that. I've only "known" Ben for a few weeks (well, I may have seen him before, but it never registered in my brain ) and my PC screen is really not the best and from that angle, it justed seemed to be a wound or something. I didn't read that anywhere, it was my own "reading too much in everything"-brain.

Oh well feel good in knowing that quite a few 'fans' of his thought it was a wound also & started jumping up & down madly. It took a while for us to work out what they were talking about. Like many moles , sometimes it looks darker than at other times... hehe.
I'm pretty sure somewhere in this mess of threads I posted a pic to show that it was just a mole, but heavens knows (after a year's worth of posts) where it is!

sherlockian111 · January 25, 2013 12:14 am

kazza474 wrote:
I found this quote from Steven Moffat just now, it's from January.

Steven Moffat, who wrote the series with Mark Gatiss and Steve Thompson, has said all the clues pointing to how Sherlock survived were in the episode. ‘It’s all set up,’ he said.
In an interview yesterday, he teased fans further by saying: ‘There is a clue everybody’s missed. So many people theorising about Sherlock’s death online – and they missed it!
‘We’ve worked out how Sherlock survives and actually shot part of what really happened. It all makes sense.’

That makes me happy, as it's the premise that I have been working on all along, everything we need to know is in THAT episode.
We must learn to observe better to get our answers.

That's the thing with us, fans. "you do see, you just don't observe"

sherlockian111 · January 25, 2013 12:55 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Wow you guys have been busy whilst I've been in bed!

Sherlock has such a rubbish relationship with his brother though, it's hard to imagine them like talking on the phone and planning to dupe Moriarty together so... I dunno. Lost again, lol.

Even though Mycroft and Sherlock aren't close on an emotional level, that doesn't mean they don't trust each other. We're all talking about how Sherlock has no emotion whatsoever and whatnot, but I think Mycroft's the one that has no emotion (that probably doesn't make any sense, but whatever)

besleybean · January 25, 2013 6:45 am

I think both the Holmes boys are capable of emotion and indeed we have seen it with both of them: Mycroft on receiving Moriarty's text.
I think both have learned that caring is not an advantage. But for Sherlock, this doesn't make it any easier.

kennese · January 25, 2013 7:00 am

After watching Reichenbach Fall I immediately hit Google looking for theories. The result? Even more confusion. If Mark Gatiss and Stephen Moffat are somehow seeing this, Hurry up and end our agony.

I too have a theory it is a bit different from the ones I am seeing out there and it started from something Moriarty said. He told Sherlock that his weakness is that things have to be too clever, and I think as Sherlock fans we want things to be too clever also which led me to think that maybe the answer to what happened is all so very simple. So I forced myself to re-watch the episode looking for a simple explanation.

I don't believe as some have expressed that Sherlock was one step ahead of Moriarty from the start. Sherlock expected Moriarty to come after him yet he did not know exactly how it would happen
I think that it was at the journalist's flat he fully understood the scope of Moriarty's plan and that Moriarty was pushing him to disgrace himself by committing a very public suicide (Btw this is Classic Moriarty who never get his hands dirty; refer to Study in Pink, and the Kidnapped children in the Chocolate factory)

Sherlock turns to Molly for help and he admits to her that he is not ok and that he thinks he is going to die and that he needs her help

On the rooftop Sherlock is trying to get out of jumping. He threatens to throw Moriarty off the roof but Moriarty tells him that he has a hit on Sherlock's friends and that only he could call it off. Sherlock does not risk calling his bluff and prepares to jump. It is there on the ledge that he figures out a way to beat Moriarty and singing "If I've got you" ( Honestly I do not know how they both figure each other out I am not a high functioning sociopath)

Anyways as we know Moriarty seeing that once he is alive that Sherlock can still save his friends, blows his brains out much to Sherlock's surprise. This is why I simply don't buy all the theories about Sherlock landing on the rubbish truck, body doubles and fake blood. Sherlock knew that Moriarty would be watching his fall and that he would not have been able to trick him with all that gimmickry. There simply was no time for that. Moriarty had to see Sherlock hit that pavement! Also now that Moriarty was dead the stakes were even higher since the hitmen had no one to stop them except Sherlock''s dead body on a pavement. Once again no room for gimmickry. Some have stated that the 3 hit men was just a bluff on Moriarty's part or hired by Mycroft to protect them. Either way if Sherlock knew this why would he still jump there was no need.

I think that most of the fandom wants to believe that Sherlock was somehow able to jump and survive without injury after all we do see him standing without a scratch at the gravesite That is not possible, So what is left no matter how improbable must be true. I believe that he did jump and did suffer some injuries. However he jumped from a hospital the same hospital Molly worked out of. They must have arranged for him to get immediate treatment. Remember we do not know how much time passed from the jump to the scene of the gravesite. It could have been weeks giving Sherlock enough time to recover.
Remember too that Sherlock in a Scandal in Bohemia did prove that such things are possible after he threw the CIA agent out of the window several times whilst tied to a chair and that man survived! So he must have known that it is possible to survive such a fall as long as he got immediate medical attention (Sherlock did call the paramedics before he threw the agent out of the window).

Some people have said that Sherlock used a rubber ball to stop his pulse to trick Watson into thinking he was dead and that being knocked to the ground by the biker made him even more disoriented. Yes the timing of that biker is suspicious but really after watching his best friend jump off a building army doctor or not I don't think that Watson was in any frame of mind to take any proper reading of Sherlock's pulse and Sherlock would know this. (and I really wonder if Watson was supposed to even witness the jump is Sherlock really so cruel? ok maybe he could be. I digress)

About Mycroft. Others have hinted that Mycroft was somehow in on this whole deception. I honestly don't buy his story to Watson about what he told Moriarty. How could a man who conceived of "the flight of the dead" be so dense? However I am still not sure that Sherlock sought his brother's help. They have such a complicated relationship that it seems unlikely. Remember Sherlock was able to save Irene Adler and fake her death so convincingly that Mycroft was fooled and in no way suspected his brother. If he fooled Mycroft once he surely could have done it again

Thus there is my Simple theory; Sherlock Jumped, knowing he would suffer injury and Molly arranged to have him treated for his injuries and helped him faked his death. There was too much at stake to involve too many people such as the homeless network in this plan. We do not know how much time passed between the jump and Sherlock standing alive and well at the grave site so he had time to recover from his fall.

So that is it! What do you think? Did I leave out anything? Is it too simple?
Let me know
We have all the time to trash it out before season 3 starts lololol

P.S Please ignore any grammatical errors I think faster than I type and I am doing this at 2 a.m so I really don't care about proof reading right now lol
Also I think IOU is significant I just don't know how
That's it I am done
Kennese 25/1/2013

Last edited by kennese (January 25, 2013 7:13 am)

besleybean · January 25, 2013 7:07 am

Wow, is the forum working now?!
Haven't time to read the whole of the last contribution, but(on the vital point) no, I don't think Sherlock was injured at all: I think it was a 'magic trick'.