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July 8, 2012 2:44 pm  #281


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

NoW I've gone and done it! I've been sucked in to accidentally put a theory onto the general  Reichenbach Fall thread! Arghhh! Please don't tick me off fellow moderator or Boss!

Last edited by Davina (July 8, 2012 2:46 pm)


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

July 9, 2012 4:04 pm  #282


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

vicjperry wrote:

1. The one characteristic that seems to stick out to me is that Sherlock (whether he's about to die or not) would never abandon his cell phone. He does so before he jumps. Think of the info on that phone for all to see. If he were to commit suicide he would have wiped his phone clean of all info.

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before...but almost everything has been discussed at least twice on this thread, so oh well 

Two arguments that I can think of: 1) Sherlock was about to jump off a roof. I doubt he was thinking very clearly. 2) He had to make the suicide believable, and why would he take the phone with him if he was about to die? He could have wiped it clean before.

One thing that doesn't fit for me is that no one found his phone. So what if Sebastian Moran (who we've been discussing on other boards) came up to the roof after Sherlock had jumped off, disposed of Moriarty's body, and took Sherlock's phone?

 

July 9, 2012 4:08 pm  #283


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Arya wrote:

[
Two arguments that I can think of: 1) Sherlock was about to jump off a roof. I doubt he was thinking very clearly. 2) He had to make the suicide believable, and why would he take the phone with him if he was about to die? He could have wiped it clean before.

One thing that doesn't fit for me is that no one found his phone. So what if Sebastian Moran (who we've been discussing on other boards) came up to the roof after Sherlock had jumped off, disposed of Moriarty's body, and took Sherlock's phone?

Plus wherever he was planning to go to hide out for a while, he wouldn't be able to use the phone anyway. As you say, more believable to leave it behind. And god knows, it was more dramatic and final-looking, for we who were watching through the camera.

Who is Sebastian Moran?

 

July 9, 2012 4:26 pm  #284


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Arya wrote:

One thing that doesn't fit for me is that no one found his phone. So what if Sebastian Moran (who we've been discussing on other boards) came up to the roof after Sherlock had jumped off, disposed of Moriarty's body, and took Sherlock's phone?

The person who would find and remove dead Moriarty would find the phone as well.
Going by canon, Moran wasn't this person. Nobody was.
Who knows if the phone Sherlock threw away was in fact "his" phone or just any other. Maybe Sherlock kept his "real" phone with him. Maybe the phone survived the fall as he took the precaution of a good coat...
Fact is, he gave up on his phone. Could be a hint for John: People who use to give up on their phones aren't necessarily dead.
Think, John!


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

July 9, 2012 4:38 pm  #285


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

tobeornot221b wrote:

Arya wrote:

One thing that doesn't fit for me is that no one found his phone. So what if Sebastian Moran (who we've been discussing on other boards) came up to the roof after Sherlock had jumped off, disposed of Moriarty's body, and took Sherlock's phone?

The person who would find and remove dead Moriarty would find the phone as well.
Going by canon, Moran wasn't this person. Nobody was.
Who knows if the phone Sherlock threw away was in fact "his" phone or just any other. Maybe Sherlock kept his "real" phone with him. Maybe the phone survived the fall as he took the precaution of a good coat...
Fact is, he gave up on his phone. Could be a hint for John: People who use to give up on their phones aren't necessarily dead.
Think, John!



What do you mean by nobody was? Someone would have found Moriarty's body eventually.

 

July 9, 2012 4:44 pm  #286


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Arya wrote:

What do you mean by nobody was? Someone would have found Moriarty's body eventually.

"A few words may suffice to tell the little that remains. An examination by experts leaves little doubt that a personal contest between the two men ended, as it could hardly fail to end in such a situation, in their reeling over, locked in each other's arms. Any attempt at recovering the bodies was absolutely hopeless, and there, deep down in that dreadful caldron of swirling water and seething foam, will lie for all time the most dangerous criminal and the foremost champion of the law of their generation. "
ACD, The Final Problem


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

July 9, 2012 4:48 pm  #287


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

It's his "note", like the note left for Watson on the boulder at the Falls.  I think the "note" will end up having several meanings.


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It was worth a wound–it was worth many wounds–to know the depth of loyalty and love which lay behind that cold mask. The clear, hard eyes were dimmed for a moment, and the firm lips were shaking. For the one and only time I caught a glimpse of a great heart as well as of a great brain. All my years of humble but single-minded service culminated in that moment of revelation.
 

July 9, 2012 5:39 pm  #288


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

tobeornot221b wrote:

"A few words may suffice to tell the little that remains. An examination by experts leaves little doubt that a personal contest between the two men ended, as it could hardly fail to end in such a situation, in their reeling over, locked in each other's arms. Any attempt at recovering the bodies was absolutely hopeless, and there, deep down in that dreadful caldron of swirling water and seething foam, will lie for all time the most dangerous criminal and the foremost champion of the law of their generation. "
ACD, The Final Problem

Ok, in canon no one found Moriarty's body. But there was a body on top of St. Bart's. Someone found it eventually.

Fetchinketch wrote:

It's his "note", like the note left for Watson on the boulder at the Falls.  I think the "note" will end up having several meanings.

True...but I doubt John found the phone. He wouldn't go back to the flat, let alone the roof of St. Bart's.

 

July 9, 2012 5:47 pm  #289


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Arya wrote:

Ok, in canon no one found Moriarty's body. But there was a body on top of St. Bart's. Someone found it eventually.
.

Of course someone must have found the body on the rooftop. I just think that person wasn't Moran. Maybe it was Mycroft's people.
In any event, dead Moriarty wasn't mentioned in the newspaper - going by the Sun's headline.


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

July 9, 2012 5:51 pm  #290


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Someone would have found and removed Moriarty's body...or at least I do hope so! Eww!


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Don't make people into heroes John. Heroes don't exist and if they did I wouldn't be one of them.
 

July 9, 2012 8:01 pm  #291


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Davina wrote:

Someone would have found and removed Moriarty's body...or at least I do hope so! Eww!

Oh dear a rottening Moriarty forever on the roof of a hospital... Not nice

No, the headline in The Sun was SUICIDE OF FAKE GENIUS.
There must have been some kind of investigation and so they must have searched the roof for clues.
Had they found a body up there they wouldn't have formed the suicide conclusion.
So somebody must have taken the body away before the investigation.
I'd say it must have been either Mycroft's or Moriarty's men.

But seriously, why is Mycroft reading a tabloid like The Sun?


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Crime in Progress. Please Disturb.
 

July 9, 2012 8:53 pm  #292


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Mycroft reading tabloids...

 

July 9, 2012 10:29 pm  #293


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I've just watched TRF  for the umpteenth time.  In the last part---you see how Mycroft sat  in his chair,  and then he struck a pose that is familiar to  us viewers AS ONE THAT SHERLOCK ALWAYS DOES WITH HIS HANDS?   
Oh.   Are you lot vacant?   is it NICE   not knowing?   Oh dear me,  Mr. Sherlock Holmes,  what are you doing to us?  Mycroft NEVER  posed like that  in all the times I've seen him.


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SHERLOCK!!!!!!
 

July 9, 2012 10:37 pm  #294


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Chrissi wrote:

There must have been some kind of investigation and so they must have searched the roof for clues.
Had they found a body up there they wouldn't have formed the suicide conclusion.
So somebody must have taken the body away before the investigation.
I'd say it must have been either Mycroft's or Moriarty's men.

But seriously, why is Mycroft reading a tabloid like The Sun?

I never thought about it, but there would be no proof, after the fact, that Moriarty hadn't pushed Sherlock off the roof (except, of course, for John's testimony) and then offed himself.

 

July 9, 2012 11:44 pm  #295


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Guys don't get carried away too much with the "there's a clue everybody's missed". That was a comment made 3 days after TRF aired. We're now 6 months down the track. No doubt someone has picked up on whatever that clue was by now so you're not necessarily looking for something that no-one has thought of. Just something that no-one had thought of within 3 days of the episode airing in the UK.

Secondly, Mycroft posed somewhat like that in Speedy's with John (in one cut anyway - damn continuity errors)

Thirdly, Mycroft would read ANY article that discussed Sherlock because he'd want to know what information was out there.


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I dislike being outnumbered. It makes for too much stupid in the room

 

July 10, 2012 12:59 am  #296


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Wholocked wrote:

Guys don't get carried away too much with the "there's a clue everybody's missed". That was a comment made 3 days after TRF aired. We're now 6 months down the track. No doubt someone has picked up on whatever that clue was by now so you're not necessarily looking for something that no-one has thought of. Just something that no-one had thought of within 3 days of the episode airing in the UK.

Some of us are very new to this fandom, and we're having fun with discussing it to death. Don't rain on our parade, please and thx.

 

July 10, 2012 1:38 am  #297


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

vicjperry wrote:

1. The one characteristic that seems to stick out to me is that Sherlock (whether he's about to die or not) would never abandon his cell phone. He does so before he jumps. Think of the info on that phone for all to see. If he were to commit suicide he would have wiped his phone clean of all info.

Do you actually think Sherlock would have anything of interest on that phone?
#1. He files his knowledge inside his head.
#2. He's not stupid enough to ever have anything 'of worth' on something so easily lost/stolen as a phone.
#3. A suicider wouldn't care about a phone; he's playing the part because someone will pick-up on such a point.


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Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 10, 2012 1:39 am  #298


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Davina wrote:

NoW I've gone and done it! I've been sucked in to accidentally put a theory onto the general  Reichenbach Fall thread! Arghhh! Please don't tick me off fellow moderator or Boss!

**SLAP!!!**


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 10, 2012 1:44 am  #299


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Arya wrote:

One thing that doesn't fit for me is that no one found his phone. So what if Sebastian Moran (who we've been discussing on other boards) came up to the roof after Sherlock had jumped off, disposed of Moriarty's body, and took Sherlock's phone?

We didn't see a comprehensive scene of what happened after the fall ... yet. So really there is nothing to 'fit'.
I daresay whoever was helping Sherlock went to the roof & tidied up all the loose ends, including disposing of Moriarty's body.
The newspaper reports & TV reports shown after the 'fall' had no mention of Moriarty/Brook being dead so the authorities haven't discovered the body.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

July 10, 2012 1:47 am  #300


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

sherlockskitty wrote:

I've just watched TRF  for the umpteenth time.  In the last part---you see how Mycroft sat  in his chair,  and then he struck a pose that is familiar to  us viewers AS ONE THAT SHERLOCK ALWAYS DOES WITH HIS HANDS?   
Oh.   Are you lot vacant?   is it NICE   not knowing?   Oh dear me,  Mr. Sherlock Holmes,  what are you doing to us?  Mycroft NEVER  posed like that  in all the times I've seen him.

Mycroft often used his hands when in a pensive mood, and yes often people who are related or know each other well could use the same kind of pose. I don't think we'll find any great mystery or revelation to that one.


____________________________________________________________________________________________
Also, please note that sentences can also end in full stops. The exclamation mark can be overused.
Sherlock Holmes 28 March 13:08

Mycroft’s popularity doesn’t surprise me at all. He is, after all, incredibly beautiful, clever and well-dressed. And beautiful. Did I mention that?
--Mark Gatiss

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."
Robert McCloskey
 

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