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March 22, 2014 3:11 am  #81


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I don't think there's any question that Sherlock would rather have Irene as an opponent than your average, run-of-the-mill criminal. More challenge, and therefore, more interesting.

But I've always thought (and maybe, again, it's a bias coming from reading too much about Johnlock) that IF Sherlock Holmes (at least the original character) were going to have a sexual/romantic relationship, it would be either 1) someone he's really come to trust and rely upon as a friend (i.e., Watson), or 2) someone who was a bit of a groupie, all "I want you because you're so amazing" (and Watson is a hero-worshipper in some adaptations).

Maybe Irene was like that by the end, or maybe she was just pretending to be?

 

March 22, 2014 8:32 am  #82


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I have no doubt Irene genuinely loves Sherolock and she was as puzzled about her own response to him, as he was about his reaction to her.
To me it's the gradual humanisation of Sherlock.
He never really believed he could properly love anybody.
But then:
1. He meets John and loves him as his one, true friend.
2.  He meers Irene...


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March 24, 2014 9:28 pm  #83


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

This woman has done it to him.
In whatever way. From the beginning he is interested in her. As Mycroft tells him about her, he repeats the word Dominatrix and his eyes sparkle when he hears that this woman opposes the most powerful family of Britain. - So at first he is interested in this woman because she offers him an exciting case...

Observing his face and his behavior as she naked received him then he seems unrelaxed as ever before. We might think he is resistant or prepared of those things. But he isn’t. Why ? Because nudity generally confuses him or because her nakedness confounds him? His eyes said a lot when she had come naked into the room, right? At this moment it seems he is so perplexed that he forgets to breath. The cool, head -controlled man is of a naked woman so confused that he forgets his code name and began to stutter? Is it because he is so inexperienced in these things? He must have seen many other odd things before. Why she confuses him that way?
He even seems to be a little jealous when Irene turns to John and says that she likes detectives.
And when she injected him the drug in his arm, he falls into a frenzy which is determined by the thought of Irene. He sleeps off his intoxication, his ecstasy of Irene. He is overwhelmed by her person, not only because of the drug.
But at that time there isn’t love. It’s more affection.

But if I look the scenes between them then there is something more than pure interest in the head of the other.
And as Mycroft in the morgue says that Sherlock but barely knew her he mocked Mycroft's view that one need not mourn the loss of a person you hardly knew.
The music he writes when she "died ", the carousel in the head as she do ( again ) lives .

Love.
When it begins , anyway? Where does it end?

The fact that he was looking for and saved her can mean everything ... but it can mean also love.
Why can he not love her even though he knows that they will never come together like a normal couple? Maybe he loves her just because they can never come together. This impossibility is very attractive. Two lost souls- different and yet similar.
This love would in any case never be boring because it would never be lived.
She is obviously the first woman who attracts him that way
The woman ... THE woman.

Last edited by TheWomanWoman (March 24, 2014 9:30 pm)


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April 6, 2014 1:49 am  #84


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Note that the one of the team who is supposed to be into women (John) shows hardly any susceptibility to Irene's charms...he is preoccupied with her effect on Sherlock.

But I don't understand how Sherlock can have feelings for Irene (or at least, have enough respect for her to want to save her) yet think CAM is the scum of the Earth.

 

April 6, 2014 6:46 am  #85


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Perhaps because CAM never actually gets his own hands dirty.


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April 25, 2014 8:00 am  #86


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Well, their relationship is intriguing, i just love everything in Scandal in Belgravia ^^, especially the final part, " I'm Sher Locked" is just BRILLIANT http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
. BOth of them brought out an EXCELLENT performance( love Lara Pulver, she's is just deadly attractive) so just love to see more scene between them again. #It'sThrilling


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April 25, 2014 3:39 pm  #87


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I nevwr want to see the Woman again...The Mind Palace was bad enough!


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April 26, 2014 4:53 am  #88


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I don't like The Mind Palace, too but The Woman?? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/worried.png
 i mean she brought somethin fresh to the whole series, and to see Sherlock gettin in trouble with a woman is interesting .It's nice to see another side of Sherlock, he certainly has different kind of feeling for her. She is AMAZING!! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png
 


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April 26, 2014 7:37 am  #89


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I love the Mind Palace.
My problems with Irene:
1.  Started in Canon
2.  I accept are my problem!
It's historically been because I'm in the virgin Sherlock camp, I don't like anybody challenging that!
But I agree it was necessary for BBC Sherlock to cover that story and also that it is an interesting twist.
But for me it's been done and so I don't want to see her back.
I was being a bit churlish before, the Mind Palace appearance was fine, but no more than that.
I'd rather see Moriarty back than Irene!


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April 27, 2014 12:59 pm  #90


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I love Moriarty and of course, we all want to have him back http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
 but no, it's not that i want to see more of the " romantic relationship" between Sherlock and Irene.http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png
 In the original masterpiece by Conan Doyle, she is a rebel woman who defies every social norms. She's adventurous, bold and incredibly clever http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cute.png
- a model or a strong female character to look up to. In this bbc version, she's independent, yes and kind of "outwits" Holmes but what we've mostly seen is the image of "The Dominatrix" who " know what men like and how to give it to them", i know, quite dissapointed http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/normal.png
 but there's still something about her that really intrigue me, i kind of think that maybe Mark has somethin up for this character, not just the woman we have seen so yes, i'd like to see more of "The Woman"( or maybe i was mistaken). Anyway,  Lara Pulver has definitely did an amazing job. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png

Last edited by Indigo (April 27, 2014 1:02 pm)


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April 27, 2014 1:44 pm  #91


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I would like to see more of Irene. I don't think I would want her and Sherlock to be in a relationship but I would like to have some more screen time. The dynamic between Sherlock and The Woman was intresting to watch. I think they were both fascinated by each other and there was an intriguing chemistry there.

 

April 27, 2014 3:29 pm  #92


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Yeah, but I think it's been done and I don't think they'll go there again.


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April 14, 2015 10:32 am  #93


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Sherlock isn't interested in sex ....

Seeing that his brain takes a break when he looks at naked Irene, I'm not so sure about that... Hormones at work - probably a purely physical reaction at that point. Though I do believe that he develops some feelings for her...

I have no problem with Sherlock forgiving Irene for drugging and beating him - after all, he forgives Mary for shooting and nearly killing him.

The Karachi rescue really happened in my opinion, even if I don't see how Sherlock could have done it, and how Mycroft could have missed it (and what was a dominatrix doing in a country full of Islamic fundamentalists in the first place?).  Firstly because I mostly like Irene and would hate to see her dead, secondly because I'm sure Mofitt know that you don't kill off great characters - you never know when you might need them again and bringing them back to life can be so awkward (anybody remember "Dallas"?)



 

 

April 15, 2015 4:23 am  #94


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Kittyhawk wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Sherlock isn't interested in sex ....

Seeing that his brain takes a break when he looks at naked Irene, I'm not so sure about that... Hormones at work - probably a purely physical reaction at that point. Though I do believe that he develops some feelings for her..
 

I never understood that scene as "Sherlock's brain stops working". It works perfectly well as his deduction of John shows us. IMO it's Irene that is perfectly un-deducable because she wants to be, not because she is naked.


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April 15, 2015 6:40 am  #95


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Indeed, Schmiezi. And it is interesting that this pattern is later repeated with Mary in a slightly different way. He deduces her but overlooks the crucial information. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

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April 15, 2015 12:29 pm  #96


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Schmiezi wrote:

Kittyhawk wrote:

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Sherlock isn't interested in sex ....

Seeing that his brain takes a break when he looks at naked Irene, I'm not so sure about that... Hormones at work - probably a purely physical reaction at that point. Though I do believe that he develops some feelings for her..
 

I never understood that scene as "Sherlock's brain stops working". It works perfectly well as his deduction of John shows us. IMO it's Irene that is perfectly un-deducable because she wants to be, not because she is naked.

Exactly my point! Sherlock's brain works when he is looking at John, but not when he's looking at Irene http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
(and btw, removing ones clothes also removes to possibility to deduct anything from them. But with Sherlock in top form we'd get make and colour names of her makeup, at the very least). And the value of the jewellery, the kind of stone and possibly who sold it...
 

Last edited by Kittyhawk (April 16, 2015 11:12 am)

 

April 15, 2015 12:50 pm  #97


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I kind of agree Kittyhawk. He clearly has a mental block when he forgets who he is pretending to be, although his brain does calculate her measurements, so it wasn't entirely shut down  I think it was a temporary distraction though, he manages to get over the shock pretty quickly and even though he can't deduce anything further from her "battle dress" he is able to go on with the plan to find the photos. I think the fact that he can't deduce anything by looking at Irene is more due to her cleverness than his brain not working.

I still don't know if Sherlock feels love for Irene... If you read A Scandal in Bohemia, John says "It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind. He was, I take it, the most perfect reasoning and observing machine that the world has seen, but as a lover he would have placed himself in a false position. He never spoke of the softer passions, save with a gibe and a sneer." So if Mark and Benedict both say that they think Sherlock was in love with Irene, then they are diverging from canon There was definitely admiration, and I think there was physical attraction or at least an involuntary physiological response to a nude woman!

Last edited by ukaunz (April 15, 2015 1:13 pm)


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April 16, 2015 11:23 am  #98


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

I watched the scene again yesterday (it is one of my favorite episodes) and Sherlock's mouth literally drops open when Irene approaches him (good news for all female fans). As for when he develops what kind of feelings, I wouldn't presume to say.

As I'm not sure whether canon Dr. Watson was a good judge of Sherlock's feelings, I wouldn't be bothered by BBC Sherlock falling in love (with whomever). As far as canon goes I'm already happy that Irene proved to Sherlock Holmes that women can be intelligent ("He used to make merry over the cleverness of women, but I have not heard him do it of late.")

 

April 16, 2015 11:43 am  #99


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

Yes I loved that line too

True, I guess that Dr. Watson may not know how Holmes is really feeling... And again, John isn't sure either. Is Sherlock playing sad music on his violin and refusing to eat because he is heartbroken, or because that's how Sherlock always behaves?

I watched the Jeremy Brett version of Scandal yesterday. It sticks very closely to the ACD text, but I liked Jeremy's expression when he first sees Irene; a smile to acknowledge how beautiful she is. This is before he knows how clever she is too (and she is wearing clothes unlike Sherlock's Irene )


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April 16, 2015 2:13 pm  #100


Re: What is it with Sherlock and Irene?

 Can we acknowledge that, regardless of the gender and sexual orientation of the participants, if you're waiting for a meeting with someone you've never met and they walk in naked, you're going to be shocked and flustered.  I don't necessarily see attraction in Sherlock's reaction.  I think he's astounded that she's thrown him off his game so quickly and in such a surprising way.


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