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November 14, 2014 7:47 am  #1


IG press & reviews

Sorry, I have to get it off my chest. I have been reading IG reviews and I have to admit that although I am thrilled that they universally praise Benedict and (usually) the film, I have been feeling increasingly uneasy about the tone of some of the comments.
The other day I watched ep. 9 of Film at the BBC and it seemed to me incredibly snotty and patronizing. The happy trio of commentators  invented all kind of dismissing ways to call the IG

"it has to simplify him (Turing)", "big British crowd pleaser", "film for families to gather on boxing day, but WE are film critics and I don't think this film is actually directed to us" (means: stupid crowds will like it, but WE, film critics are more intelligent and see that it is just a crowd pleaser)

"there is something important missing here" "we are excluded from his (Turing) private life" "film... doesn't do justice..." "the film back away from..."

"commemorative stamp cinema" "rigid heritage movie cliches" "the main problem with the film", "I hoped for something more creative"

but BC "is terrific TO BE HONEST"!!!

Really, it could be a model exercise for "how many veiled insults can you smugle in 4 minutes review", but I have to see I've seen more "positive" reviews which make compliments sound like insults (especially "polish" "crowd-pleasing" or "solid")

Now I am wondering: is it the British way of talking about films generally, or is it some snubbery aimed specifically at IG?

 

November 14, 2014 8:13 am  #2


Re: IG press & reviews

I wouldn't worry about tedious reviews to be honest, miriel. I sometimes have a feeling that critics feel like they are above the broad masses and have a finer taste and better antenna, but they are just human, too. Important is, if you will like it.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

November 14, 2014 12:59 pm  #3


Re: IG press & reviews

Remember, a movie review is just an opinion and everyone has one.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

November 14, 2014 3:42 pm  #4


Re: IG press & reviews

I do think some critics are being a bit snotty about it, and I also think that for some, it has something to do with the fanbase BC has; it hurts some to see him as a serious and talented actor because a) he's Sherlock and b) he has a lot of female fans, some of whom are sometimes a little over the top.
So some reviewers simply get sniffy about him.

Also some seem to have wanted the obligatory sex scene - they seem to think the Movie is not brave enough for not including one.

I'm really heartened by the fact that the critics whose opinion I really respect, love the Movie, and the majority have praised Benedict's performance.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

November 14, 2014 5:53 pm  #5


Re: IG press & reviews

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've read a couple of other comments saying that main draw of the film is Benedict's performance.  I haven't seen it, so don't feel I can judge!  But there's nothing wrong with "crowd-pleasing" in itself.  At least it will help to make the flim more popular.   It's probably a good thing that it's family-friendly too, as the subject matter is great for children to watch. 

I don't think there's any need for sex scenes at all, but I can see why critics want to see something of Turing's sexuality (is that what they mean by "private life"?) - it's what makes his story particularly interesting to a wider audience, especially in these more gay-friendly times when we can be outraged by the way he was treated.   It's the "human interest" aspect. 

 

November 14, 2014 6:11 pm  #6


Re: IG press & reviews

tonnaree wrote:

Remember, a movie review is just an opinion and everyone has one.

Lol, tonnaree, that's quite a discovery, isn't it.

However, I happen to disagree with you on both points. Not everybody has an opinion. A lot of people tend to repeat the opinions thay heard/ listened to, even if they are convinced these are their "own" thoughts.
Secondly, of course a review is an opinion. However, film critics, especially those who write/ speak for influential media, are supposedly better equipped to express their opinions than an average film viewer, and are supposed to give opinions based on their professional background/ esthetic knowledge, because the readers tend to believe "experts".



However, this was not the point of my post, really. I don't "worry" about bad critics: the film seems so good and people interested in it, I don't think these negative opinions can damage it very much.

I am intrigued by verbal strategies of British reviews, though. In my country we have brilliant critics, not-so-brilliant or even quite shallow ones. However, this kind of skilful wording aimed at diminishing-through-praising or insinuating negative feelings in obliquous way is not common in our film reviews.

You say "BUT Benedict Cumberbatch is terrific TO BE HONEST": what does it mean? A very sneaky way to insinuate that the film itself is a rubbish.
Or let's see the wording here (David Sexton)

"The Imitation Game is an efficient piece of product: a reasonably entertaining, well-made, necessarily reductive, conventional dramatisation of the broad outlines of Turing’s life, skimpy on his homosexuality while overstressing his one heterosexual involvement, perhaps to make the movie easier family viewing"

Every single denomination is a masterpiece of venom dropping: "piece of product" "necessarily reductive" "conventional" etc.: in this context even seemingly positive qualities "well-made" and "family vewing" insinuate a contrary meaning.

However, my question to fellow members on this board was whether this is the "normal" way of writing reviews in Britain or are they particularly malicious in this case. I am not "worried". I am curious..

 

     Thread Starter
 

November 14, 2014 6:45 pm  #7


Re: IG press & reviews

From the US side, that review translates to: No gay sex scenes.


____________________

"Oh, you meant 'spectacularly ignorant' in a NICE way."
 

November 14, 2014 6:49 pm  #8


Re: IG press & reviews

Miriel, I think that's their way of showing us all how clever and above it all they are!
I so agree with you on people copying each other; on another forum I visit he's being discussed with mostly complimentary things being said.
Then someone piped up with the view that he's a typical middle class actor with typical movie star looks (yes, really!), who always plays himself (yes, really!) - this led to others saying pretty much the same thing.
Now we all have different opinions, but when it's clear that you just want to jump on the "I don't like this middle class boy" bandwagon and probably haven't actually seen him act too often then I can't take it seriously.
I couldn't even be bothered to post an alternative argument - it's just not worth trying to reason sometimes.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

November 14, 2014 6:49 pm  #9


Re: IG press & reviews

Or as Benedict says: there are NO sex scenes.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

November 14, 2014 7:34 pm  #10


Re: IG press & reviews

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the post!  I don't usually watch Film 2014 these days, so I'm not used to how it's normally presented.  Here's a Guardian review for comparism (it's not completely complimentary either, "war-movie cliches", etc, although, again, there is plenty of praise for Benedict). 

 

November 14, 2014 8:55 pm  #11


Re: IG press & reviews

"Guardian" review is less snotty and poisonous than Film episode of Sexton comment, but it doesn't mean Bradshaw is not doing a fine job in telling between the lines  that the film is not as brilliant as it is hailed to be. Look at the first sentence:

"Despite its flaws, The Imitation Game watchably recreates one of Britain’s finest hours"

To begin with flaws to go then with a postive remark is always a way to give emphasis on negative and then you have the sneaky "positive" adverb "watchably" which sets the tone of the whole text, lol.

You can compare his review with the dengeek one, not so much positive, either, but one that gives a motivated opinion. I may not share the criticism, but in this case I see on what it is based and I respect author's opinion.

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-imitation-game/32435/the-imitation-game-review
 

     Thread Starter
 

November 14, 2014 9:53 pm  #12


Re: IG press & reviews

Here's a couple more British reviews:

The Independent

The Telegraph

They do have some similar criticisms. 

 

 

November 14, 2014 10:05 pm  #13


Re: IG press & reviews

Sorry, but this is really a slap in the face - praising Benedict for his Assange and using the comparison to belittle his performance as Turing. TFE was eviscerated by the critics and also due to this fact his performance was not sufficiently appreciated and he did not get a single nomination or award AFAIK. IMO this shows that you simple cannot please some people. 

As for the gay scene on which critics seem to so keen - he never had sex with the boy he loved. He described Bletchley Park as a "sexual desert". And the relationship for which he was sentenced was basically casual sex with a young man he had picked up in the street. Therefore I wonder in which way showing this in detail would have helped to understand Turing's character. But I have not seen the film yet and will reserve my judgement for later. 

Last edited by SusiGo (November 14, 2014 10:19 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 15, 2014 7:53 am  #14


Re: IG press & reviews

Susi, the Telegraph review is yet another perfect example of snotty review and I agree it feels like a slape in the face.
Sadly, I have read so many nasty reviews yesterday, I begin to suspect this is aimed especially at this film/ Benedict - cannot believe British critics are always this mean and hypocritical.

I listened to Guardian film show video review yesterday and was appealed by the tone the comments.
Peter Broadshaw begins with "It is a very Sherlockian performance" (= BC just repeating himself)
and it is "ACTUALLY a very good performance" (notice the clever use of adverb)
but "I am not completely convinced that Alan Turing was like this" (= inaccurate portrayal)
"Cumberbatch UPGRADES him: he is genius, he is homosexual, he is on the spectrum" (now, this is beyond my understanding: upgrades him to homosexual, lol?)
"he is everything you need to be to get full Academy Award" (= he distorts AT portrayal to make it more Oscar baity, but the implication that he plays him as a genius and homosexual only to get Oscar is just beyond ridiculous.
And there is Catherine Shroud, whining that you never see him engage in any happy relationship (may be because he hadn't got one?) and then goes on laughing about how silly and "meh" the depiction of Turing "otherness" is in the film, says with wonder that "people love it" (silly people) to ends with the conclusion that "Eddie Redmayne has a slightly better chance to win an Oscar". (no offence to ER who apparently is terrific in TTOE, but mentionig him in such a context has a sole purpose to diminish BC performance)

Wow. just wow.

Sorry for the rants, but as one accustomed to analyse verbal strategies I cannot help myself

 

     Thread Starter
 

November 15, 2014 8:05 am  #15


Re: IG press & reviews

As I said earlier, some have a problem with Benedict Cumberbatch - you feel it physically hurts them to acknowledge that he can act.
Also, some have a problem with Weinstein; there will be lots of snide comments about the Movie being Oscar bait.
(I'm going to stick my neck out actually and say that BC won't get the Oscar, whether he deserves it or not, but I hope I'm wrong)
I've not seen the film, but when I do I won't let any kind of bias affect my view of if - I'll never like a production just because he's in it, nor would I praise a performance of his if I haven't enjoyed it.
But these - professional - people DO come across as biased sometimes; they're entitled to dislike something, but the reasons they give for it are just not logical.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

November 15, 2014 9:25 am  #16


Re: IG press & reviews

I agree with Tinks: it was what I saw on the other forum, for them the problem was BC himself and it was painful to read I assure you! I'm not surprised to find the same "problem" with the professional...


---------------------------------------
Enjoy the silence
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer
 

November 17, 2014 4:54 pm  #17


Re: IG press & reviews


Bitte nicht so drängeln, wir sind hier bei der Arbeit und nicht auf der Flucht!
Please don´t push, we are at work and not on the run.
 

November 21, 2014 9:27 am  #18


Re: IG press & reviews

The Guardian published a withering piece regarding the historical inaccuracies (others might call it artistic freedom) the film takes. 

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/nov/20/the-imitation-game-invents-new-slander-to-insult-alan-turing-reel-history

I feel this somehow part of an attempt to bring the film down. Not sure why but in Britain the reviews have been quite negative. 

As for the content of the article - true, Turing was never suspected of being a Soviet spy. But his security status was withdrawn, gay visitors of his were spied on and sent back to their home countries, he would possibly never again have worked in a classified environment because of his sexual orientation and the hysterical fear of gay men being blackmailed to become Soviet spies.
So what is this fuss really about? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

November 21, 2014 11:22 am  #19


Re: IG press & reviews

I was just talking about this article last night.  I know that often details are changed in biopics (they are entertainment, after all), but I'm disappointed that they seem to have changed some things unnecessarily, especially in what is an important film.   If they're adding in things that denigrate Turing's character, with no evidence, then that's pretty dodgy. 

I do agree with this last part:

The film is right that the “chemical castration” Turing underwent after his conviction was unjust and disgusting. Turing was pardoned in 2013, but the pardon was controversial. Many campaigners believe, as Turing himself did, that consensual sex between men should never have constituted an offence at all. Tens of thousands of less famous men were similarly prosecuted between 1885 and 1967, and their convictions stand.

Singling out Turing for a pardon because of what he contributed in other ways, seemed to be upholding the convictions of all those other men.   The British reviews are mixed (I don't think they're negative, but maybe not so overwhelmingly positive as others) perhaps because the story is closer to home, here.  (And it's not the unknown, untold story that some people seem to claim it is).

I'm still really looking forward to the film, but I feel forewarned not to take it as a historical document.   It can still be a great film with historical inaccuracies.  (It's not as if Shakespear's history plays are rubbish due to possible inaccuracies!).  And I think I'll reread the book afterwards. 

 

November 21, 2014 12:21 pm  #20


Re: IG press & reviews

Liberty wrote:

I do agree with this last part:

The film is right that the “chemical castration” Turing underwent after his conviction was unjust and disgusting. Turing was pardoned in 2013, but the pardon was controversial. Many campaigners believe, as Turing himself did, that consensual sex between men should never have constituted an offence at all. Tens of thousands of less famous men were similarly prosecuted between 1885 and 1967, and their convictions stand.

Singling out Turing for a pardon because of what he contributed in other ways, seemed to be upholding the convictions of all those other men.   

I don't agree with this.
This fact about the less famous men being specifically mentioned by displaying it at the end of the film includes all the other men who were suffering a fate similar to Turing and critically alludes that a royal pardon and apology should have been made to all of them no matter how useful or not they might have been to Britain.

 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

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