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December 26, 2014 11:01 pm  #41


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

So I went to Holland to watch the film today. And I am very glad I did. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


A really beautiful film. The period details are lovingly done, the music and the whole acting ensemble are excellent. There are historical liberties but this is a film not for experts but for people who do not know much or just a little bit about Alan Turing and which celebrates his achievements. (Therefore I understand very well the decision to leave out the scene in which he is found dead and instead show him surrounded by his colleagues and friends at BP). The film tries to captures as much of him as possible, not just the fact that he was gay and cruelly punished for it. This is incredibly important but would reduce him to a victim and I this is not what the creators set out to do. 

I really like that they do not shy away from the consequences of breaking Enigma - having to hide their knowledge so that the Germany do not notice what has happened. Having to choose when to save lives and when to let the Germans have their victories. And the burden of having to hide everything they did and achieved, often for the rest of their lives. And in Alan's case having to hide his incredible achievements and an essential part of his personality as well. 

Kudos to Keira Knightley. She is an excellent Joan Clarke representing all the underestimated and discriminated women who were allowed to contribute to the war effort but not their share in the form of recognition and equal pay. I love her scenes with Benedict, they have a great chemistry. The engagement scene where he improvises the ring is so wonderful and I really hoped against my better knowledge that they would stay together. 

And then of course there is Benedict - what a wonderful achievement. He captures so many traits - the arrogance, social awkwardness, inability to understand social rules and yet the vulnerability and humanity underneath. One of my favourite scenes is the one in which he gives apples to his colleagues and tries to tell a joke. This is so awkward and endearing and my heart went out to him. And the little moment at the beginning when he walks through the train and spots the boy doing maths surrounded by a loud and silly lot of other boys. I think I love these moments maybe even more than the big ones like the last scene with Joan which is nevertheless heartbreaking. What a wonderful performance that in spite of all the sadness left me with a very warm feeling. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

December 27, 2014 1:08 am  #42


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Just saw this movie tonight. Wow, I am amazed like the rest of you guys. Benedict's perfomance was astouning. I did sense Sherlock once or twice, but very briefly. (Like when he said "Clearly" in the interrogation scene), but it was very fleeting. If we are to compare it with Sherlock, I think it showed very clearly how Alan propably was an Asberger and how, just as clearly, Sherlock is not.

I remember reading in a Norwegian interview that Benedict was unable to stop crying while filming the lasts scenes. The anger and frustration of Alan's fate was so strong that he couldn't stop crying after the scene was done. And I can so understand that - the unfairness and cruelty of what he was put through after everything he head done was horrifying to watch. I felt so incredibly sorry for him.


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December 27, 2014 2:44 am  #43


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I am so excited!  TIG finally opened in Atlanta.  Going to see it Monday.


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December 27, 2014 8:00 am  #44


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

The only bit that really reminded me of Sherlock was keeping the code-cracking secret - it reminded me of "Coventry" from ASIB!    I didn't see Sherlock in Benedict's performance, but I'll maybe see more on a second viewing. 

 

December 27, 2014 10:06 am  #45


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Yes, I remembered Coventry too! 


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
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Team Hudders!
 
 

December 27, 2014 10:41 am  #46


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

SusiGo wrote:

One of my favourite scenes is the one in which he gives apples to his colleagues and tries to tell a joke. This is so awkward and endearing and my heart went out to him. And the little moment at the beginning when he walks through the train and spots the boy doing maths surrounded by a loud and silly lot of other boys. I think I love these moments maybe even more than the big ones like the last scene with Joan which is nevertheless heartbreaking. What a wonderful performance that in spite of all the sadness left me with a very warm feeling.

Yes, those little scenes and details made the movie the perfect piece of art that it is, in my humble opinion. It brings you so close to Alan and makes you understand him and feel for him even more. Of course you also need to have those big, dramatic moments like the one when Alan's colleagues finally openly side with him, but the little moments are the ones that complete the man and the whole story. 
I loved the scene in which Alan comes to Joan's parents in order to persuade them that their daughter is needed in BP. His improvisation there is so endearing...!

And like I already mentioned before, I didn't see any other of Benedict's roles in his Alan. I'm afraid the German dubbing will ruin this completely, by the way... you can already hear it in the trailer. Alan talks exactly like Sherlock there, and if this it what he will sound like during the whole movie... http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/sad.png

 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

December 27, 2014 10:44 am  #47


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Oh, what a shame!  I think Benedict's voice for Alan is so much part of the character. 

 

December 27, 2014 11:03 am  #48


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

And I still wonder if they kept the stammer at all in the German dubbing. And I did not read a single word of the Dutch subtitles because I was completely focussed on the film.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2014 11:18 am  #49


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I have to say, there was one thing in the movie that was grating on my nerves. Nothing to do with the actors or the story, but a writing technique that I really can't stand.

Character A says an emotional tagline early in the movie towards character B. Later in the movie, when character A is struggling, character B says the same tagline back to character A.

It was used a lot in the 90s, and it's so cheesy and horrible. I was very disappointed to see it used in a movie like this, which otherwise held such a high quality. It drew me right out of an otherwise very emotional and strong scene.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

December 27, 2014 11:23 am  #50


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I know what you mean. It was a bit overused but the fact that they varied made it slightly better.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

December 27, 2014 11:54 am  #51


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I agree Vhanja - that was one of my least favourite bits.  It felt contrived.   And also not really true in the context of the film - it seemed like Turing knew he was a genius, as did the people around him - he wouldn't even have been working on the project if he'd been somebody that nobody could imagine anything of.  Also calling the machine "Christopher" seemed a bit heavyhanded - I felt the message could have come across without that.   But I suppose both of those are trying to communicate quickly with a more casual audience?

The film has been very well received amongst people I know (here in the UK)!  We've all been recommending it to others, and I think it's been doing quite well at the box office. 

 

December 27, 2014 12:03 pm  #52


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Good point, Vhanja, I felt the same way about it. I think the sentence was used three times in the movie, and the last time it was used I felt it was a bit not good. I see why they did it though, so I can live with it. Especially because they stayed away from pretty much every cheesy territory they could have gotten themselves into, especially at the end of the film.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

December 28, 2014 11:34 am  #53


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

There is another thing that impressed me - the depiction of the inhuman aspects of the British state. Not just the subject of Alan's cruel punishment but also the sacrifices they demanded for the sake of secrecy. People were forced to completely erase years of their lives, of achievements and burdens they maybe carried with them, to lie to their families and friends and just everyone. 
The scene with Menzies before the team leaves Bletchley Park is very powerful. His light way of sending them off and thereby telling them to never meet again and never say a word about what they did. Because this is not about the war against Germany anymore, it is a foreshadowing of the next war to come, the Cold War, in which the results of their work will be used again. And it is them that have to pay the price. 
 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

December 28, 2014 11:38 am  #54


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

SusiGo wrote:

There is another thing that impressed me - the depiction of the inhuman aspects of the British state. Not just the subject of Alan's cruel punishment but also the sacrifices they demanded for the sake of secrecy. People were forced to completely erase years of their lives, of achievements and burdens they maybe carried with them, to lie to their families and friends and just everyone. 
The scene with Menzies before the team leaves Bletchley Park is very powerful. His light way of sending them off and thereby telling them to never meet again and never say a word about what they did. Because this is not about the war against Germany anymore, it is a foreshadowing of the next war to come, the Cold War, in which the results of their work will be used again. And it is them that have to pay the price. 
 

I agree with this. They sacrificed years of their lives, achieveing enormous results, and get no thanks for it at all. That's the price to pay.

I am still more or less in shock over Alan Turing's fate. It's so inhumane, I never knew this was done in UK. (Then again, I shouldn't say too much - in Norway, we did the same to Gypsies all the way up to the 70s).


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Team Hudders!
 
 

December 28, 2014 1:07 pm  #55


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

You'd suppose there would be some way they could have been recognised without revealing any secrets - general awards for contributions to the war effort, or a big pay-off or something.   On the other hand, I suppose they were only doing their jobs, and maybe weren't looking for recognition ... after all, it must have been a better life working there than some alternatives.  Lots of people were contributing and making sacrifices in various ways.  One of the themes of the film seemed to be about team working  - that even a very individual individual like Turing got better results with a team behind him.  

I wonder (not trying to justify what was done to him AT ALL) if it was really known how devastating the effects of the hormone treatment would be, or if the aim was just to suppress his sexuality rather than torture him and be a punishment in itself?   After all women have different levels of hormones and aren't affected in this way.   And the hormone treatment was used for medical conditions too (prostate cancer, etc.).   I don't know if the extreme effects on him were dose related, or individual?  And perhaps because he had such an exceedingly brilliant mind, the effects were more pronounced than they might be in a more average person.  Maybe the side effects weren't properly recognised in people taking the drug for medical reasons.   Or maybe it's simply that just one side effect - depression - is enough to ruin somebody's life (or end it).   Probably he didn't know how bad it would be when he chose it over prison (not that prison would have been a better alternative, really).

The UK doesn't have a proud history in this area, unfortunately.   Most of the positive changes to sex laws came quite recently. 

 

December 28, 2014 1:13 pm  #56


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I know little about this, but I don't think the treatment was meant to be torture. I think the main goal was to remove the sexuality, so that the "indecency" couldn't be repeated. 


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

December 28, 2014 1:14 pm  #57


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I think hormone treatment was quite new at the time. And with Turing it was not used in a medical sense, i.e. as a cure, but as a way to suppress a person's libido because this as such was regarded as criminal. Therefore I suppose he might have been given a higher dose than, say, a man suffering from prostate cancer. 
It was used as a "modern" way of castration as opposed to a surgical method. So they would not have cared if the outcome was the same or if it had side effects as long as his sexual drive was suppressed. 

 

Last edited by SusiGo (December 28, 2014 1:18 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

December 29, 2014 2:24 am  #58


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

I saw TIG this afternoon; it finally opened in my area on Thursday.  I thought it was great!  Just a few comments, because others have already said much of what I think about it.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
I thought the scenes with young Alan were wonderful--Alex L portrayed adolescence beautifully.  The scene where he waited for Christopher returning from break, with the note in his hand, was heart-breaking.  I liked seeing actual war footage interspersed throughout the movie; to me, it brought home the urgency of the work being done at Bletchey Park.  Joan was very sympathetic and I liked her character a lot.  I did see traces of Sherlock when he said "Clearly."  I saw the movie with my parents and an aunt (I persuaded my mother to see Frankenstein with me and she raved about BC as the Creature) and my father made the connection with Coventry, which I thought pretty interesting (his comment and the connection to ASIB).  The costuming, cinematography, and music were excellent.

Benedict. Was. Amazing.  I haven't seen any of the other movies whose main actors are being touted as Oscar conenders but BC certainly deserves a nomination and, hopefully, he'll get the win.

One question I had was: What was the point of showing Turing running?  I think it was two times.  Was it to show that the man was an athlete and masculine in that sense?  Was it a metaphor to imply he was running away--or towards--something?  I'd be interested in what others who have seen the movie think.

Last edited by Sherli Bakerst (December 29, 2014 2:27 am)


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December 29, 2014 8:43 am  #59


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Sherli Bakerst wrote:

One question I had was: What was the point of showing Turing running?  I think it was two times.  Was it to show that the man was an athlete and masculine in that sense?  Was it a metaphor to imply he was running away--or towards--something?  I'd be interested in what others who have seen the movie think.

One thing is that he was indeed a brilliant athlete, he was among the top marathon runners in the UK (don't ask me when exactly).
Apart from that those scenes seemed to me as an escape for him. When he was running he had time just for himself, it probably helped him think, clear his head - or maybe don't think at all for a while. I didn't take it as an evidence for his masculinity, but more like an attempt to present us with a really rounded character who's not only a mathematical genius but a totally normal human being.
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

December 29, 2014 8:45 am  #60


Re: The Imitation Game (spoiler thread for those who have seen it)

Apparently Turing was an athlete, so I presume it was a nod to this.
I also saw it as part of hin keeping himself both mentally and physically fit and pushing limits etc.
But personally I'm just grateful for the chance of a gatuitous ogle at the beautiful Benedict form!

Oh, we cross posted.

Last edited by besleybean (December 29, 2014 8:47 am)


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