Whisky, you make some good points, although I'm not sure I would agree that Sherlock isn't really affected by the fireplace scene. He might not be affected for us to see, but looking back on it we now know that something certainly has thrown him off track there. There certainly were things he should have payed more attention to... but he didn't. Redbeard. He seemed irritated for a second when CAM mentioned the name, but then Sherlock seemed to forget about it again. Shouldn't he have been far more suspicious the moment CAM mentioned that name?

Yes, yes, he should be more suspicious.  Yet he still acts as if CAM thinks drugs are his main pressure point.   That must be for John's benefit - he's kind of lying to John there.  Perhaps because "Redbeard" tells him that he's going into something darker and more dangerous than he'd anticipated.

@lil - LOL .

Last edited by Liberty (November 1, 2014 10:23 pm)

Regarding the restaurant scene: This is Sherlock Holmes we are talking about. Sherlock didn't bother sitting in Buckingham Palace dressed just in a sheet. I suppose he also wouldn't give a damm strolling through London in a hospital gown. Besides Sherlock is a very famous person so he would probably have no problem to order something in the restaurant, even in his unusual dress.

Last edited by stoertebeker (November 1, 2014 10:29 pm)

stoertebeker wrote:

Regarding the restaurant scene: This is Sherlock Holmes we are talking about. Sherlock didn't bother sitting in Buchingham Palace dressed just in a sheet. I suppose he also wouldn't give a damm strolling through London in a hospital gown. Besides Sherlock is a very famous person so he would probably have no problem to order something in the restaurant, even in his unusual dress.

 
Good point.

I also think, due to his status of being a celebrity, Sherlock being in hospital would be a big news in the press (before Janine's revenge  ). That's how Irene may have found out.

Yes...
So you see why I really think this happened?

@ Besley, I think it did really happen.  He seems so vulnerable in that scene, and the hospital gown adds to it, especially with Magnusson so immaculately dressed.  And Sherlock physically looking through the glasses before he realises that they aren't a portable Appledore is a nice set up for him having to physically see an empty room before he truly realises there are no vaults. 

@ Whisky, yes I wrote that badly - I was thinking about whether Sherlock though it was a weakness that Magnusson would bother with.   What use would it be to Magnusson, if publicising it wouldn't affect Sherlock?  I'm even surprised that John falls for it.  Well, falls for it twice - doesn't believe Sherlock that it's a case when it is, and then believes Magnusson thinks it's Sherlock's pressure point, when it's not the one he'd think of using.

Last edited by Liberty (November 1, 2014 10:48 pm)

besleybean wrote:

The over arching Redbeard theme is(as Mycroft brutally points out)Sherlock gets into scrapes when it involves those he loves...be it Redbeard or John.
So CAM 1st revelas he knows as a child Redbeard was the one Sherlock loved and now as an adult, he can use Sherlock's love of John as a pressure point...

But if Sherlock understood that, he would have gotten an idea about what is going to happen, in the moment Magnusson mentions Redbeard. He doesn't... He seems quite sure he is playing the game, not Magnusson. In the exact moment where Magnusson mentions Redbeard, Sherlock should at least immediately make the bonfire connection - and then start thinking about Mary and John and where that leaves him.
 

Last edited by Whisky (November 1, 2014 10:53 pm)

Whisky wrote:

besleybean wrote:

The over arching Redbeard theme is(as Mycroft brutally points out)Sherlock gets into scrapes when it involves those he loves...be it Redbeard or John.
So CAM 1st revelas he knows as a child Redbeard was the one Sherlock loved and now as an adult, he can use Sherlock's love of John as a pressure point...

But if Sherlock understood that, he would have gotten an idea about what is going to happen, in the moment Magnusson mentions Redbeard. He doesn't... He seems quite sure he is playing the game, not Magnusson. In the exact moment where Magnusson mentions Redbeard, Sherlock should at least immediately make the bonfire connection - and then start thinking about Mary and John and where that leaves him.

Yes, that's why I earlier wrote that he seems to miss something in the fireplace scene. He's only slightly irritated when CAM mentions Redbeard, and that's it. He always seems to be one step behind in that episode, he's not in power - which can be seen quite nicely in the deleted scene (among many others).
 

Liberty wrote:

@ Whisky, yes I wrote that badly - I was thinking about whether Sherlock though it was a weakness that Magnusson would bother with.   What use would it be to Magnusson, if publicising it wouldn't affect Sherlock?  I'm even surprised that John falls for it.  Well, falls for it twice - doesn't believe Sherlock that it's a case when it is, and then believes Magnusson thinks it's Sherlock's pressure point, when it's not the one he'd think of using.

Yes, I agree. But then the question is - who is trying to affect whom? I think Magnusson isn't the one trying to get to Sherlock in the first place - Sherlock is really the one trying to get to Magnusson. Maybe he fed him information about his drug habit in some secret ways, hoping he would bite. I think he's testing grounds... and we never know if Magnusson really falls for the drug story. It's not clear who is the one with the upper hand. It's pretty much the cabbie game from ASiP: bluff? double bluff? ...

It would also be interesting to know what was the information Sherlock got - when he got so excited, when he thought he got Magnusson convinced. Was that about an article in a newspaper? It's not made obvious I think. So it could be something else just as well.
 

Last edited by Whisky (November 1, 2014 11:18 pm)