BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The deleted scene (special edition)

Zatoichi · November 9, 2014 9:49 pm

I really like your thoughts, Mary, although I read TRF entirely different and already found S1/2 Sherlock perfectly lovable and trustworthy..(though maybe not with delicate feelings.. or coffee, for that matter..)

Liberty · November 9, 2014 9:57 pm

besleybean wrote:
I did feel sorry for John at Reichenbach.
But I also understood Sherlock had to do what he did.
I fully understand what Sherlock does in HLV and why. I can admire him wanting to make John and Mary safe...and maybe Mycroft!
Yes, he does commit murder and sadly feels he has to make the scarifice of his punishment...

Good point about Mycroft. I get so lost in the drama that I sometimes forget that the whole point (from Magnussen's angle) was to get to or destroy Mycroft.

About TRF - I don't think Sherlock is oblivious to the effect on John. He's not even shocked at John's reaction at the graveside. He just doesn't see an alternative course of action, so goes ahead and fakes the suicide (for the best of reasons). But I love that scene earlier where John ends up saying something like "nobody could fake being a complete dick all the time" - not a lot is said, but you see an awful lot of the relationship between them and what it means to each of them.

besleybean · November 9, 2014 9:59 pm

Yes indeed.

maryagrawatson · November 9, 2014 10:24 pm

besleybean wrote:
I did feel sorry for John at Reichenbach.
But I also understood Sherlock had to do what he did.

I also know why Sherlock had to do what he had to do -- John had to see it to really believe it. I get that. But having been John in that situation, NO, NO, NO.

Mary

besleybean · November 10, 2014 6:47 am

Though I think John was equally horrified over the outcome with Magnussen.

maryagrawatson · November 10, 2014 1:29 pm

besleybean wrote:
Though I think John was equally horrified over the outcome with Magnussen.

Horrified is not traumatized, destroyed, soul deadened, heart broken, crushed, etc. by powerlessly watching the person you love most in the world throw himself off a building.

Mary

besleybean · November 10, 2014 5:28 pm

Well yes, as one of my favourite writers said(about something else!) it's not a competition!

But I think you are right and of course John has Mary's support, on this occasion.

Schmiezi · November 10, 2014 5:58 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well yes, as one of my favourite writers said(about something else!) it's not a competition!

But I think you are right and of course John has Mary's support, on this occasion.

Does he? I always thought deep inside she is just happy that Sherlock leaves for good.

besleybean · November 10, 2014 6:02 pm

Well possibly that's one of those things they've kept quiet about...
She did seem very concerned about Moriarty's possible return.

nakahara · November 11, 2014 10:15 am

Just found an interesting and sad meta on flowers used in a deleted scene:

http://archipelagoarchaea.tumblr.com/post/101531476553/struggling-carnations

It did strike me as unusual to have so many of them in a room where a gravely injured patient is recovering. Their heavy smell would be disturbing and suffocating to a person unable to move and to put them away. Now it seems that most of the flowers (with the exception of a sole rose from W) had a more ominous meaning here. They were just a further attempt from people to injure Sherlock, to project their hatred and bullying on him even from afar, to kick him some more althrough he had already fallen down.

I always viewed Lestrade´s attempt to video an injured and weak Sherlock as awful, but after this meta it seems downright abhorrent.

SusiGo · November 11, 2014 11:48 am

This is really sad. And it makes me wonder why they put all those flowers in his room and let strangers like Magnussen visit him before he has really woken up. Moreover, when dealing with a patient who has been shot by an unknown person and still might be under threat. Dramatic licence, I suppose. Or something else?

nakahara · November 11, 2014 12:52 pm

The hospital was run by Moriarty´s cousins, I suppose.

SusiGo · November 11, 2014 12:57 pm

Brilliant! With Janine as a director so she had direct access to the morphine pump as well. But, seriously, what sort of a hospital is that in which a critically injured parient is bullied and threatened three times in a row? And nearly filmed on phone as well? And this is the point where I wonder about Mycroft who is conspicuously absent in this part of the episode.

nakahara · November 11, 2014 1:33 pm

I knew it was all Janine´s doing!

I also wonder about John? Where is he while all of this is happening? Sleeping on a chair in a next room? Putting things on his blog?

SusiGo · November 11, 2014 1:36 pm

Yes, there are some curious absences during the whole hospital episode. Sherlock seems to be surrounded by enemies and people who threaten him or want to settle a score with him.
No John, no family, no friends.
No idea if this is just for the sake of dramatic suspense or if it symbolises that he is basically still alone.

nakahara · November 11, 2014 1:47 pm

Symbolism of loneliness and abuse is too strong here to be entirely coincidental.

SusiGo · November 11, 2014 2:03 pm

I agree. Which matches the episode as a whole. There is not hardly any empathy for him so that I am even grateful for Lady Smallwood's words at the end.

Zatoichi · November 11, 2014 2:10 pm

I need comfort for Sherlock in S4!! Comfort, you hear me Godtiss??
*hears Moffat cackle in the distance*

SusiGo · November 11, 2014 2:22 pm

Where can I sign this?

SolarSystem · November 11, 2014 2:29 pm

And it's not just HLV, it's the whole of S3. Let's face it, he cames back after two years and is more lonely than ever before. John isn't there. And it's not just that he'a not in 221B, he's not with Sherlock in hospital when all these nasty things happen, either. I strongly believe that he was there with Sherlock right after he was shot and brought to the hospital, after all we see him being there telling Mary that Sherlock has pulled through. So I take this as a slight comfort. But I agree, we definitely need more comofrt for Sherlock in S4. Much more comfort.

Last edited by SolarSystem (November 11, 2014 2:30 pm)