For me is very hard to understand why Mary did what she did, because it resolved none of her problems, but brought one more. She could have tell Sherlock "don't tell John till we both talk" and go off till John come upstairs, i think  Sherlock would have granted her this wish, at the end of the day he would have better understand how difficult is to tell the truth as he lied John too.

But what i really really don't understand is why Sherlock trusts Mary and tell John to trust her .... WHY?????  

I don't think he trusts her the way you mean it.
She will protect John when he will be gone. Or: John would be in trouble if he leaves Mary.
This is imo the only reason why Sherlock tries to convince John to trust Mary - but I think he himself doesn't. Not the way like: "She is such a nice and lovely lady, live long and happily together, you two."

Mattlocked wrote:

I don't think he trusts her the way you mean it.
She will protect John when he will be gone. Or: John would be in trouble if he leaves Mary.
This is imo the only reason why Sherlock tries to convince John to trust Mary - but I think he himself doesn't. Not the way like: "She is such a nice and lovely lady, live long and happily together, you two."

It must be this. Or there are things bigger than John happiness at stake. Like it was with the fall... 

Gooooodddd, how you survived the 2 years gape before? I swear i will watch from now on only series who have already finished! 

A lovely light wrote:

Gooooodddd, how you survived the 2 years gape before?

Well, basically by discussing the same things over and over again here and enjoying it.

That, and fanfics.

Exactly. This has been part of the Sherlock experience. And sometimes there is repetition but on the other hand we get so many brilliant observations and a lot of fun. 

Harriet wrote:

What kind of programming are you speaking of? Is it your own definition or are you relying on some other theory?
 

It's the same sort of psychological conditioning you see in many fields, especially the armed forces and intelligence agencies, that teaches you to respect the chain of command, to be loyal, how to react in certain situations, how to handle certain ethical dilemmas, etc.

It's part of the training. I've worked alongside the RCMP, CSIS, the CIA, MI5, DHS, ICE, etc. and have had an inside glance at what goes into the training, especially with CSIS (Canada's CIA/MI5) since I actually started the recruitment process with them. You definitely lose a part of yourself to be part of something bigger. I don't see this as being something necessarily negative, just not for me.

If you can understand that no one can just walk off the street and become a government assassin overnight, that such a person is built from the ground up, then Sherlock's shooting makes a lot more sense.

Mary

maryagrawatson wrote:

Harriet wrote:

What kind of programming are you speaking of? Is it your own definition or are you relying on some other theory?
 

It's the same sort of psychological conditioning you see in many fields, especially the armed forces and intelligence agencies, that teaches you to respect the chain of command, to be loyal, how to react in certain situations, how to handle certain ethical dilemmas, etc.

It's part of the training. I've worked alongside the RCMP, CSIS, the CIA, MI5, DHS, ICE, etc. and have had an inside glance at what goes into the training, especially with CSIS (Canada's CIA/MI5) since I actually started the recruitment process with them. You definitely lose a part of yourself to be part of something bigger. I don't see this as being something necessarily negative, just not for me.

If you can understand that no one can just walk off the street and become a government assassin overnight, that such a person is built from the ground up, then Sherlock's shooting makes a lot more sense.

Mary

I can understand how a person would be more able to shoot another person in the meaning of going over the moral or the inside threshold more easily.

What i still don't get, is the logic behind this decision, as it didn't helped Mary in any way. True, she won a little bit time, but what had she done with this time? Was it worth to get another big problem this time win? 

nakahara wrote:

 Shooting people came much more naturally to her.

Nicely put. 
 

I try to wrap my mind around the "what scenario would have happened" if Sherlock wouldn't have taken that one step forward. I thought I'd given up on understanding Mary, but here I am again.
SusiGo, you said Mary would have shot Sherlock anyway, because he would have been a witness? I try to imagine that: Mary offers "stay where you are otherwise I will shoot you" and Sherlock would have stayed where he was... what sense would it make for Mary to shoot him then anyway? Why did she offer him a choice then? She could have said "hey Sherlock, wrong place wrong time, gonna shoot you no matter what". But she is clearly trying to interact with Sherlock, but why? For which scenario is she hoping, if it's not for Sherlock helping her?
I feel that Mary is kind of a person who knows what she wants. If she wants to have no witnesses, she will make that happen. If she wants more time, she will make sure she gets more time. So if she says to Sherlock "stay well back" - I find it comprehensible that she will do sth to him if he moves, but if he would have stayed where he was...
Is she just that sure that Sherlock will ignore her warning?
 

I believe this shooting scene tells us everything we need to know about Mary. 
1. The top floor of the building has 7(?) layers of security, 2 of which are illigal in the UK. Mary entered and exited quite easily.
2. As Sherlock approached the bedroom, we can faintly hear CAM begging for his life: "please, think of your husband, he is an honorable man..."  It's no small feat to make someone like CAM (who is arrogant and always treated Sherlock and John with contempt) on his knees begging for mercy.
3. Mary does not plead or accept help. As such, Sherlock's offer to help is almost an insult to her.

In sum, Mary is deadly, extremely able and intelligent. She shows no remorse, no fear and she will accept no help. The only time she showed vulnerability or even fear was when John discovered the truth. This shows her feeling for John is genuine. To me, there is no question that she spared Sherlock's life. If she wanted to kill him, he'd be dead 10 times over.

Last edited by molly212 (September 8, 2014 11:05 pm)