Maybe, if there's a Moriarty connection, she was watching John for signs that Sherlock was alive?  Sherlock does say that he couldn't contact John. 

I think Mary did have a good reason to shot Sherlock, didn't she?  If she'd just walked out, or even left Sherlock able to talk, Sherlock would have told John about her, and she seemed to be adamant that she would do anything to stop that. 

Why was she so adamant?  I thought it was just because she didn't want to lose John, but then she doesn't lose him when he finds out anyway. He's bad at keeping secrets so that's another reason for him not to know, but by the end of HLV he's still managing to keep it under wraps.  I wonder if it occured to her to tell him at some point, given that she seemed to agree with what Sherlock said about why John was attracted to her.   She could have told him before the wedding, and it looks like he might have still gone ahead.  Or maybe he only stays because of the pregnancy.  I'm not sure. 

I think John's inability to keep secrets is one reason Sherlock can't let John know that he's alive after TRF.  He doesn't tell the others either, but he really, really wants to tell John and can't.  It's amusing that John is actually shouting out to the takeaway (in TEH) about the secret while Sherlock is trying to tell him that it's a secret.   Sherlock usually gets round that "problem" John by not telling John very much at all.  Obviously in TRF, but at other times too.  I thought it was particularly striking in ASiB - John knows nothing about anything throughout the story.  

I always find it difficult to accept John's problem with his dangerous side, because he embraces it so readily in ASiP.  He knows why he wants to be with Sherlock and Sherlock knows too, and both happily accept it.   So while it's a revelation about Mary, it shouldn't really be news about himself. 

I agree that Mary might have aimed to live with the secret forever.  (I still think it odd that she went for John though, given his connections).   And also odd that Sherlock and Mary get on well, especially when he seems to be scared of her, in his mind palace.  Unless both of them feel that John knowing the truth resolves that situation - neither are any longer at risk from each other. 

I will admit that I didn't read all nine pages of responses to this thread. I got through three though. And I noticed something.

No one mentioned the part Mycroft plays in the wedding. He's not there physically, but he's in the mind palace. And he is on the phone. And he gives Sherlock trouble about 'getting involved' with John and Mary. I.e., he's telling Sherlock what he always tells him--caring is not an advantage. If Sherlock this so little of himself as a friend or best man, it's because all of his life, he's had his big brother telling him that sentiment is a weakness. And trying to make friends was disastrous. Until John.

Mrs. Hudson says his mother has a lot to answer for in the way that people say, 'Your mother would be ashamed.' The mother is traditionally regarded as the parent who teaches manners. And Mrs. Hudson wants to speak to his mother about his atrocious manners in yelling at her and ordering her around.

Also, I would say there are 35 people tops at the wedding.

But, but...John's beautiful little speech.

They feel genuine to me.

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

Mrs. Hudson says his mother has a lot to answer for in the way that people say, 'Your mother would be ashamed.' The mother is traditionally regarded as the parent who teaches manners. And Mrs. Hudson wants to speak to his mother about his atrocious manners in yelling at her and ordering her around.

Yup. The moment Sherlock finally made sense to me: he's a spoiled brat. Thankfully, he's growing up.

Mary

maryagrawatson wrote:

Snootiegirl99 wrote:

Mrs. Hudson says his mother has a lot to answer for in the way that people say, 'Your mother would be ashamed.' The mother is traditionally regarded as the parent who teaches manners. And Mrs. Hudson wants to speak to his mother about his atrocious manners in yelling at her and ordering her around.

Yup. The moment Sherlock finally made sense to me: he's a spoiled brat. Thankfully, he's growing up.

Mary

 
Yes, you can really tell that series 3 is all about the maturation of Sherlock and John and Sherlock's relationship. I think Sherlock grows up a lot in the moments he realizes how he made John feel with his death.

maryagrawatson wrote:

I think we're talking about two separate issues here. I agree that Sherlock's comment could have been him trying to be funny. And I'm definitely not one who believes he's useless in the kitchen. If you look at the sink area of the kitchen throughout series 3 (and/or maybe in The Network app), you'll sometimes see a colander and cheese grater by the sink. I seriously doubt that Mrs. Hudson is making him all that (presumably) cheesy pasta.

As for Mrs. Hudson, I think that what she's commenting on is that Sherlock doesn't thank her and that Mrs. Holmes is to blame for him taking people for granted.

Mary
 

 
Yes, Mrs. Hudson is just old fashioned enough to blame the mother. However, Sherlock's comment that his mother 'understands little' seems mean unless he's referring to her not knowing much about social graces either. She is a genius too.

Last edited by Snootiegirl99 (September 1, 2014 10:49 pm)

[quote888]

Schmiezie wrote:

besleybean wrote:

This is no criticism, more a puzzled observation.
Reading discussion on Mary and particuclarly the attitude of oither chatacters towards her...
It's sometimes as though the Christmas and tarmac scenes never happened.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but I don't believe that John and Sherlock are genuine in those scenes. That's why I don't refer to them too often here.

I have two reasons why christmas and tarmac don´t change much for me: First, I´m not sure whether or not Sherlock and John have truly forgiven her or if it´s just part of a plan. John´s speech doesn´t feel genuine, it might just be because he´s not good at such things but it´s also a possibility that he prepared it because he´s not a good liar. "The problems of your future are my privilege" could also have an air of threat about them, I haven´t made up my mind about it yet.

Second, even if both men were somehow able to forgive her I don´t have to agree with them. I´m ready for a redemption arc, but after how she treated Sherlock (not just the shooting, also Leinster Gardens) it takes more than two tears and a kiss on the cheek to get me over my feelings towards her. The "surgery" explanation is totally not convincing for anyone with medical background, and if that´s really everything we´ll get it will rival the off-switch as my least favourite plot device of all times. [/quote888]

Yes, either it will all make sense after S4 or we have to accept it as just another thing that doesn´t make too much sense if you think about it very closely and take it very seriously. We´ll see.. either way I´m sure it will be entertaining .