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August 5, 2014 3:53 pm  #61


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Just checked. They do not mention the gun in ASiP. So we can assume that John keeps it and that Sherlock knows that and where he keeps it because he takes it twice without John's knowledge. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

August 5, 2014 3:56 pm  #62


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Then Sherlock really relies on his brother managing it.


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Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 3:56 pm  #63


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

I suppose so. He must be good for something. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 3:57 pm  #64


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Poor Mycroft. That's all? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png
http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 4:00 pm  #65


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Just joking.

Regarding the legal discussion: sometimes we have to remember that this is a fictional story and that some things just have to be believed. Suspension of disbelief and all that. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 4:05 pm  #66


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Artistic licence.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 5, 2014 4:05 pm  #67


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Exactly. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 5, 2014 4:13 pm  #68


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

SusiGo wrote:

Just joking.

Regarding the legal discussion: sometimes we have to remember that this is a fictional story and that some things just have to be believed. Suspension of disbelief and all that. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

That's what I mentioned before already. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 5, 2014 8:01 pm  #69


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

SusiGo wrote:

gently69 wrote:

Sherlock certainly did. You can see it in his face when he finally realised that there are no vaults.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/aae1013f306d660f45f09d1e3bc2cbdd/tumblr_n9k7a4GvWM1s9htd1o9_500.gif

For me this is the moment he decides to kill Magnussen. This and no other. The second he realises it is all in his head. CAM threatening John is just to make it clear to all of us. Sherlock knows it at once. 
 

Of course, this is just my opinion, but I see only Sherlock´s nasty shock and dreadful realisation that he is in deep trouble and that he pulled John right into in here.
For me, this is the moment he decides: "I will kill you, you swine!"

http://screencapped.net/tv/sherlock/displayimage.php?album=9&pid=26569#top_display_media


 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

August 6, 2014 5:09 am  #70


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Hmm, could be the icing on the cake but would Sherlock make such a serious decision just because of this emotional pressure?
IMO the flicking only confirmed the decision.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 6, 2014 6:00 am  #71


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

I think it's rather difficult to determine the exact moment when Sherlock decides to kill Magnussen. Both moments that have been mentioned here make perfect sense.
The thing is, Magnussen flicking John's face probably really only is the icing on the cake, as gently put it, because it doesn't change the facts. The facts are clear when Sherlock realizes that there are no vaults and that everything is in Magnussen's mind palace. And I would assume that Sherlock knows right then and there that there is no other way out than to kill Magnussen. The flicking probably infuriates Sherlock further, but the facts stay exactly the same. 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 6, 2014 6:13 am  #72


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

IMO he knows he will shoot Magnussen when realizing there are no vaults. Then he has to wait for witnesses to come so it will be clear that John is not involved.

Otherwise, the whole flicking does not make sense to me. Why would Sherlock allow Magnussen do do that to John without interfering?


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

August 6, 2014 6:22 am  #73


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

True, he could have killed Magnussen the moment they left the house. Or in the house.
Then again, one could argue that it was indeed the flicking that finally made Sherlock decide to kill CAM. Although that would mean that before the flicking Sherlock still would have seen another way out - and I doubt he did.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 6, 2014 6:53 am  #74


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Remember the witnesses for John's innocence. He had to wait for them. Maybe Sherlock was afraid of losing control if he interfered during the flicking. Shooting Magnussen too early.

Last edited by gently69 (August 6, 2014 6:53 am)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 6, 2014 6:56 am  #75


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

The reason why I don´t believe Sherlock thought about killing Magnussen immediatelly is that Sherlock doesn´t struck me as a type for cold-blooded murder. Unlike Mary Morstan, who was a hitman in her previous life and thus the idea of killing a person who stands in her way comes naturally to her, Sherlock never resorted to such violence before, he was always able to overcome his enemies by some sly strategy he devised. He is a dangerous young man but the actual killing of people is not his thing. So I think he needed some time to recover from shock and to determine that he must kill Magnussen. The time required for them to go to the terrace and to wait for Mycroft´s special forces to arrive was enough for that and it seems to me that CAM´s face-flicking was the thing that persuaded Sherlock he must kill that scum indeed.

I think that if Magnusses was a little less proud and boastful, he could´ve saved himself. If he told them "OK? Now you know my vaults are only in my head and I won over you, so get lost, I spare you and won´t tell a thing about Mary to anyone." - I don´t believe Sherlock would kill him then. He would be horribly ashamed that he miscalculated in this manner, but I doubt he would shoot CAM.

Last edited by nakahara (August 6, 2014 6:57 am)


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

August 6, 2014 7:11 am  #76


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

I see the pros and cons for the various moments. Just let me tell you my personal experience when  watching HLV for the first time: in the very second Sherlock closed his eyes in front of the empty room I got a very cold gut feeling and thought "Shit, there is only one way to silence him now. And Sherlock knows it. John has not realised, but Sherlock knows." And I had a very bad feeling about how it would end. So maybe I am projecting my personal impression onto the show but Sherlock's heartbreaking face in that moment made me believe that something terrible was going to happen. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
     Thread Starter
 

August 6, 2014 7:11 am  #77


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

nakahara wrote:

The reason why I don´t believe Sherlock thought about killing Magnussen immediatelly is that Sherlock doesn´t struck me as a type for cold-blooded murder. Unlike Mary Morstan, who was a hitman in her previous life and thus the idea of killing a person who stands in her way comes naturally to her, Sherlock never resorted to such violence before, he was always able to overcome his enemies by some sly strategy he devised. He is a dangerous young man but the actual killing of people is not his thing. So I think he needed some time to recover from shock and to determine that he must kill Magnussen. The time required for them to go to the terrace and to wait for Mycroft´s special forces to arrive was enough for that and it seems to me that CAM´s face-flicking was the thing that persuaded Sherlock he must kill that scum indeed.

I think that if Magnusses was a little less proud and boastful, he could´ve saved himself. If he told them "OK? Now you know my vaults are only in my head and I won over you, so get lost, I spare you and won´t tell a thing about Mary to anyone." - I don´t believe Sherlock would kill him then. He would be horribly ashamed that he miscalculated in this manner, but I doubt he would shoot CAM.

Yes, Sherlock certainly isn't a cold-blooded killer. But ... as he found out that the vaults didn't exist I saw in his facial expressions: "Oh what have I done? I failed. I can't rescue John the way I thought I could. Do I have to kill Magnussen now?"
And when Magnussen flicked John's face it was the confirmation of Sherlock's thoughts. "Yes, there is no other way out. I have to kill him."

And I just can't believe that Magnussen had the chance to save himself with anything he promise. Sherlock couldn't believe him. No way.

Yes, Susi, my first feeling about this scene was similar to your's.
 

Last edited by gently69 (August 6, 2014 7:14 am)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

August 6, 2014 7:19 am  #78


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

CAM set a trap for Sherlock and he walked right in.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 6, 2014 7:23 am  #79


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

nakahara wrote:

The reason why I don´t believe Sherlock thought about killing Magnussen immediatelly is that Sherlock doesn´t struck me as a type for cold-blooded murder.

I agree with you on that one. And let me just say that that's the reason why I really don't like it when Sherlock says "Merry Christmas!" before he shoots Magnussen. I know he's desperate and angry and probably pretty mad with himself for getting it all wrong. But him shouting "Merry Christmas" always feels just wrong to me.
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

August 6, 2014 7:27 am  #80


Re: Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

besleybean wrote:

CAM set a trap for Sherlock and he walked right in.

He did. Sadly. But equal villains are the spice of the show.

Last edited by gently69 (August 6, 2014 7:28 am)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170428/gxfakjvq.png
Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

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