BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Baby Watson (spoilers!)

Lola Red · December 11, 2014 9:09 pm

While Sherlock’s action towards Archie are from a pedagogical standpoint more than questionable, I think Archie is okay with it, as evidenced by his reaction (whatever than means for him on a psychological level). Sherlock has quite unintentionally (he is visibly surprised by Archie’s reaction) found a kindred spirit in him. Sherlock, even as an adult, is not prone to see the loss of life when he sees a dead body, but rather the fun that he is going to have while solving the puzzle of that person’s death (e.g. Study in pink).

To come back to the topic and the reason why I write here at all; I cannot imagine Baby Watson to play a big part in the future of this show. For starters because it would, in my opinion, really change the feel of the show, and, in extension, what the show is about. Also, I just don’t think it would be the wisest thing to do from a production point of view. I just cannot see why TPTB would do that (including a baby) to themselves. They already have a hellish job trying to work out Martin’s and Benedict’s schedule in order to make this show happen. Why throw a young child actor, who can only work for a very limited amount of time, into the mix for the long term (except maybe they wanted a challenge, in which case I have no doubt they are perfectly equipped to tackle it)? I once saw an interview with Bill Lawrence, an American TV-writer and producer, and he quite bluntly explained the reality of working with very young child actors. (If your interested here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE5t3tx0mVk at about 28 minutes) This made it much clearer for me why children in TV-productions are so often ignored in the story telling, that is, until they become an important device in the plot. If we look at the cannon, the Sherlock Holmes story’s work wonderfully without a kid being involved. I do think that there is a plan for the baby on a short term, otherwise it would not have been included in the first place. That being said, for the majority of the future stories, it will not be important (I will just presume here that TPTB will continue to follow the spirit of the cannon as they have done in the past). I think that as soon as Baby Watson has outlived its purpose it will be written off, in one way or another.

PS As always, I am very much looking forward to be proven wrong

PPS My sincerest apologies should anyone get annoyed because I decided to bump this thread

Ah-chie · December 18, 2014 3:53 am

I'm going to toss my hat into the ring and vote that hopefully there is "No Baby". Something like that really doesn't belong on this kind of show and would change the dynamics of the show.

As to HOW they (the writers) go about getting around the fact that Mary was announced as being pregnant at the end of Series/Season 3... it doesn't really matter to me. I'll leave it up to the writers to decide the details (and I think I am fairly confident that they will do it skillfully). I don't really see the theory of the baby not being John's (and Mary takes the child and leaves) as a sustainable story idea, so any other alternative method (baby dying by foul means, baby and mother dying by foul means, medical problems that result in loss of child) probably would be more acceptable from a writing point of view.

I really, really like Mary as a character. I think she was a great and wonderful addition in this past season. She really has fit in very nicely. But if I thought for a moment that she would interfer with the dynamic between John and Sherlock... I would be more than happy to dispose of her too.

In fact, I would say that about any character that messed with the John and Sherlock chemistry (and writing any kind of domesticity with a kid involved into 221b Baker Street would qualify as messing with that IMO).

That sounds really cut and dried on my part, but I don't say "dump the kid and the wife (if necessary)" with any cruelty in mind. Paramount in my mind is Sherlock's and John's story - anything else is superfluous. In my opinion introducing a baby (with all the many complications it would bring - accommodations, feeding, training, caring for the baby) would stretch the core relationship of the show too much and take away the central attention and emotional centre of the programme. Writing-wise it just doesn't make much sense.

That being said, if the writers/producers did decide to go with a child in the mix and DID do it successfully... they should be awarded every writing award around! It would be that difficult of task to me.

Not saying they couldn't do just that, but even writers as talented as these, would have a very difficult time pulling it off, I think.

I think the writers had something bigger and wider in mind when they introduced Mary's pregnancy in Season 3. I think they already had an idea where that would take the story in the future and did it with a purpose in mind.

I think I read recently that they already have 2 more seasons planned in their heads as of right now (not written mind you, but at least they kind of know the direction they want to take the characters in). I just have this gut feeling that doesn't include Daddy John and Uncle Sherlock.

That would be just too weird... for me at least.

-Val

Vhanja · December 18, 2014 10:32 am

I really, really don't want to see John in the suburbs with a wife and child, occasionally getting up from his family sofa to help Sherlock with cases. I really, really don't.

Ah-chie · December 18, 2014 12:30 pm

Well said. John is meant to be by Sherlock's side.

But then, John isn't a suburban type of a guy anyway, is he? Right from the get-go (Study in Pink) the writers made it clear that he is really a creature of the city like Sherlock (citing his army pension as a reason for keeping him from the possibility of living in his preferred location).

It may be a bit of a journey but it will happen. I didn't mind his side trip (living with Mary on his own) during Season 3 because it fit in so nicely with the development of both characters (to show us the viewers just how deep their friendship was and how lonely they were without the presence of each other).

But I think they will get John back to where he belongs, eventually.

-Val

tonnaree · December 18, 2014 12:59 pm

My dream scenerio would be for a fake pregnancy. Second choice would be for the baby to not be John's.

besleybean · December 18, 2014 8:08 pm

I think baby and/or mother may have to go away for safety.

silverblaze · December 18, 2014 9:49 pm

tonnaree wrote:
My dream scenerio would be for a fake pregnancy. Second choice would be for the baby to not be John's.

I'd actually really not like either scenario. The first one, all this buildup and then... meh. Second: ieuw. And I do think that'd be OOC for Mary, she'd kill just to be with John. Assassin's logic.

Don't think they'll be in the suburbs either. That could've happened with Mary from TEH and TSOT, but not with Mary from HLV. There'll be trouble. Although... maybe Moftiss will expect that we'll expect that and do a double bluff and... now my brain hurts.

Basically I don't have a clue.

Vhanja · December 19, 2014 8:40 am

Seeing as Moftiss talk about something dark and horrible happening in S4, my guess is that Mary will die. Maybe even while still pregnant.

BreathingIsBoring · December 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Honestly, based on ACD canon and Gatiss's hints, along with both Ben and Martin being emotional in the readthrough, I'm 95% sure Mary's going to either die in childbirth or right before, and that'll be the tragedy of the series. My theory is the person who may or may not be Moriarty will target her in the same way Magnussen did, only to get to Sherlock rather than Mycroft. Either that or Mary will become injured defending Sherlock, maybe, to redeem herself, or defending John, because she clearly loves him.

But that's just me.

tonnaree · December 19, 2014 2:21 pm

BreathingIsBoring wrote:
Honestly, based on ACD canon and Gatiss's hints, along with both Ben and Martin being emotional in the readthrough, I'm 95% sure Mary's going to either die in childbirth or right before, and that'll be the tragedy of the series. My theory is the person who may or may not be Moriarty will target her in the same way Magnussen did, only to get to Sherlock rather than Mycroft. Either that or Mary will become injured defending Sherlock, maybe, to redeem herself, or defending John, because she clearly loves him.

But that's just me.

I hope not. I want Mary to die a villian.

REReader · December 19, 2014 4:22 pm

BreathingIsBoring wrote:
Honestly, based on ACD canon and Gatiss's hints, along with both Ben and Martin being emotional in the readthrough, I'm 95% sure Mary's going to either die in childbirth or right before, and that'll be the tragedy of the series.

This is my take as well.

Whisky · December 19, 2014 8:12 pm

silverblaze wrote:
I'd actually really not like either scenario. The first one, all this buildup and then... meh. Second: ieuw.

Thanks. Also expresses my feelings about this.

silverblaze wrote:
Basically I don't have a clue.

Me neither :-)

I'm still shocked how this short hint in series 3 towards a Mary baby totally subdued my expectations and happiness for series 4. But I can't get over it, somehow. I keep thinking "please make it go away, please make it go away" :D

Last edited by Whisky (December 19, 2014 8:16 pm)

Schmiezi · December 19, 2014 8:20 pm

tonnaree wrote:
BreathingIsBoring wrote:
Honestly, based on ACD canon and Gatiss's hints, along with both Ben and Martin being emotional in the readthrough, I'm 95% sure Mary's going to either die in childbirth or right before, and that'll be the tragedy of the series. My theory is the person who may or may not be Moriarty will target her in the same way Magnussen did, only to get to Sherlock rather than Mycroft. Either that or Mary will become injured defending Sherlock, maybe, to redeem herself, or defending John, because she clearly loves him.

But that's just me.

I hope not. I want Mary to die a villian.

Me too.

besleybean · December 19, 2014 8:31 pm

I really don't think she will...I think she'll either die a hero, a victim, or just unfortunate...

Last edited by besleybean (December 19, 2014 8:31 pm)

SusiGo · December 19, 2014 8:37 pm

BreathingIsBoring wrote:
Honestly, based on ACD canon and Gatiss's hints, along with both Ben and Martin being emotional in the readthrough, I'm 95% sure Mary's going to either die in childbirth or right before, and that'll be the tragedy of the series. My theory is the person who may or may not be Moriarty will target her in the same way Magnussen did, only to get to Sherlock rather than Mycroft. Either that or Mary will become injured defending Sherlock, maybe, to redeem herself, or defending John, because she clearly loves him.

But that's just me.

Can anybody tell me about them being emotional in the readthrough? Because I did not even read about Benedict and Martin being there. Where does this come from?

besleybean · December 19, 2014 8:40 pm

I'm glad you asked, cos I was wondering!

Last edited by besleybean (December 19, 2014 8:41 pm)

Whisky · December 19, 2014 8:41 pm

besleybean wrote:
I really don't think she will...I think she'll either die a hero, a victim, or just unfortunate...

I think unfortunate would not really work for the story? They've built it up to something big.
And even if she jumped in to save John or Sherlock, it wouldn't make her a hero. Even if she regretted things, turned around, and made a heroic choice for once - she would still have been lying to John, still have shot Sherlock, still would have had other options and chosen badly. I don't think heroic acting makes a hero.
Victim would be my guess.
Or none of the above. She could stay ambiguos and just "be vanished" (what's the active verb for that?). Then her only role would have been to frame Sherlock's and John's development, and there would be no deep explanation for her actings and her past.

besleybean · December 19, 2014 8:43 pm

Well we suspect she was a CIA agent, possibly she went rogue because of people like CAM...

Whisky · December 19, 2014 8:46 pm

But maybe went rogue because of the fun of it, and some moneymaking. Who knows.
I'm not sure we'll get an explanation, that was what I wanted to say. The could use Mary storywise for series 4, but that's three whole episodes, and although I can easily see one episode dedicated to Mary, I don't really see two or three... just a feeling.

SusiGo · December 19, 2014 8:48 pm

besleybean wrote:
I'm glad you asked, cos I was wondering!

Probably a misunderstanding. Maybe she was talking about the older quote of the actors being devastated when hearing about series 4.
Apart from the few tweets from Amanda, Louise and Alistair Petrie I did not hear anything from the readthrough.