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December 13, 2014 10:41 pm  #361


Re: Violence at the reunion

Trying to crawl into the mind of the screenwriter again: protagonist has done something really horrible and will do something else that's also really horrible. How can we make sure he doesn't completely lose the sympathy of the viewer? Slap him a few times. Punish the evil deeds. 

 

December 13, 2014 11:03 pm  #362


Re: Violence at the reunion

Trouble with that is, I never acceopted that he did anything really horrible.


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December 13, 2014 11:05 pm  #363


Re: Violence at the reunion

Both Martin and the Moftiss says that John is the voice and the face of the audience. I believe many in the audience has been surprised at what Sherlock gets away with. So I think this was something many had been waiting for, for quite a while. Like silverblaze mentioned.

Having that said, I'm rewatching TEH now, and gotten to the scene where John visits Mrs. Hudson. And SHE is annoyed at HIM, because he hasn't contacted her at all in two years. 

Her line "Just one phone call" is eeringly similar to John's "Just one word". So maybe the good doctor has some skeletons in his own closet as well. (Then again, he actually took responsbility for it, and didn't expect the world to revolve around him).


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December 13, 2014 11:08 pm  #364


Re: Violence at the reunion

besleybean wrote:

Trouble with that is, I never acceopted that he did anything really horrible.

Faking one's death to one's best friend doesn't count as horrible? You gotta admit it's not very nice. 

 

December 13, 2014 11:16 pm  #365


Re: Violence at the reunion

It was just unfortunate John had to witness that...others had to believe Sherlock was dead.


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December 13, 2014 11:30 pm  #366


Re: Violence at the reunion

besleybean wrote:

It was just unfortunate John had to witness that...others had to believe Sherlock was dead.

Unfortunate might be the wrong word here. After all, Sherlock waited for John so he could make the phone call and then commit suicide (or so it seemed) in front of John's eyes. PLUS giving John the feeling that he could have prevented that had he only found the right words.

Bit not good, that.


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December 13, 2014 11:35 pm  #367


Re: Violence at the reunion

I don't think Sherlock rationalised that at all... Moriarty's network needed dismantling, Mycroft and he planned it and sentimentality did not enter the equation,.


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December 13, 2014 11:38 pm  #368


Re: Violence at the reunion

I completely understand Sherlock faking his death for John while jumping off the building. He had to, to avoid John, Mrs. Hudson and Lestrade being shot. That was a brave and noble thing to do.

However, there is no reason why Mycroft couldn't inform John a few months later about how it all was. No, John isn't the best liar, but he woudln't have to lie. Any spies would just see him walking in and out of the flat. Not much work for John to keep it hidden.


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

December 13, 2014 11:42 pm  #369


Re: Violence at the reunion

The deception was aimed at John so that he could be convincing for the rest of the world. It was deliberate, not collateral damage.

 

December 13, 2014 11:42 pm  #370


Re: Violence at the reunion

And to make good TV?!

Last edited by besleybean (December 13, 2014 11:43 pm)


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December 13, 2014 11:49 pm  #371


Re: Violence at the reunion

Everything was done to make good tv.

 

December 13, 2014 11:53 pm  #372


Re: Violence at the reunion

Well, I think it was good tv. It is a bit funny. Really funny, actually. 


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

December 14, 2014 12:05 am  #373


Re: Violence at the reunion

Yeah, as I said, Moftiss' sense of humour. 

The reunion we're talking about, right? Not the Reichenbach ending. 

 

December 14, 2014 12:07 am  #374


Re: Violence at the reunion

Reunion, yes. The RF I think was very noble of Sherlock.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

December 14, 2014 12:22 am  #375


Re: Violence at the reunion

Noble? You mean that he sacrificed his life in order to get rid of Moriarty. Yeah, that's noble. The role that John was forced to play in this... not so noble. 

 

December 14, 2014 12:24 am  #376


Re: Violence at the reunion

I agree. The jump itself was noble. Leaving John out of it for two years was beyond excusable. 

Last edited by Vhanja (December 14, 2014 12:24 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

December 14, 2014 3:37 am  #377


Re: Violence at the reunion

I was really angry with Sherlock for a long time at what he put John through until I finaly realised that John witnessing the suicide was key to him believing it and he had to really believe it for Sherlock's story to hold. If John had even an inkling that Sherlock was still alive, the whole plan would have fallen apart.

And yet, and this is probably an even bigger realisation, Sherlock didn't mean for John to witness it. He had someone make the fake call about Mrs. Hudson being shot to get John away from the scene!

This is a complete about face for me as to my feelings about Sherlock's behaviour on the roof. Having been John on the ground, that took precedence over my analysing the goings on logically, which really shows how personal experience can colour one's opinion of fiction.

Mary

 


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

December 14, 2014 3:41 am  #378


Re: Violence at the reunion

I don't have issues with his actions while on the roof. I have great issues with his actions - or non-action - for the next two years. It had to believable then. There was no reason why John couldn't be told a few months later. 


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

December 14, 2014 7:24 am  #379


Re: Violence at the reunion

Unless someone could get the idea to plant a spy close to John, someone who would gain his trust by supporting him emotionally and then try to get information about Sherlock´s whereabouts.. someone who gets suspicious after all those miraculously solved cases that happen around the world.. maybe Anderson wasn´t the only one still believing in Sherlock Holmes..

 

December 14, 2014 9:23 am  #380


Re: Violence at the reunion

Mary, I'm sure that Sherlock organised the fake call (there's something similar in the ACD story).  Maybe he got the timing wrong and had meant to jump without John seeing, but I'm afraid I suspect he meant John to see it.  John wouldn't have believed it otherwise.  I also suspect that that last phone call was being witnessed (by people other than John), and Sherlock knew that.  

I don't think John's a good actor (Martin is!) and I can believe that he would not be convincing if he knew the truth.   Things would have played out differently - he might have stayed at 221B and kept it ready for Sherlock - but I think his demeanour would be different - too obviously different.  

If Sherlock had got word to John, he'd not only have risked John's life, but the whole operation.    What was he meant to do?  Well, he does the right thing - but at great personal sacrifice. 
 

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