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April 11, 2015 9:39 am  #181


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Vhanja wrote:

I am tempted to say that this is just creative license from the crew to allow for simpler and more in-frame reactions between Sherlock and John.

I absolutely agree with that. Reactions between Sherlock and John are what this episode is all about after all.
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 11, 2015 1:33 pm  #182


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

I don't know about wedding "rules", but I haven't been at a wedding ever where they had a seating arrangement like that. I think nowadays it's not so restricted and people can pretty much sit whereever they want. I would assume that would also be true for a modern times wedding like Mary's and John's. I find the framing the important part, not the seating arrangement, although it's nice of course ;-)
At the weddings I've been people sat at different tables. At one, the bride and groom shared a table with the parents, and the bridemaid and best man and the rest of the lot had their own table. At another, all best friends of the couple where at their table, while family had to back of to the second table :D At a wedding of my friend where I knew nobody else, I sat right next to her without being bridesmaid, simply she was the only one I knew.
I mean, it's about people enjoying their time, and Sherlock would feel most comfortable next to John, so that's where he is seated. I would arrange it just the same.
Is it really still important where people sit in "proper" big weddings? Or is it a british thing?
Also I don't think everybody was wearing a suit... or an evening dress. Maybe I simply don't know very traditional people :D


Did a bit of research on the internet. Found this:
"The best man is the leader of the groom’s men. He is the right hand of the groom and the date for the maid of honor. His outfit should complement the groom’s without matching exactly and without overwhelming the groom’s."
I think Sherlock a) wears exactly the same and b) he looks kind of overwhelming..........

Also this:
"Think of it like this. The best man’s suit or tuxedo is one step removed from the groom. If the groom is wearing a white dinner jacket, the best man should wear black. If the groom is wearing a double breasted coat, the best man should wear a single breasted. If the groom wears a red rose, the best man should wear a white one." (http://blog.knotstandard.com/best-man-wear/)
I cannot see Sherlock and John follow that rule either.

Last edited by Whisky (April 11, 2015 1:47 pm)


_____________________________________________________________

"It is what it is."

http://i58.tinypic.com/2j432ti.jpg
 

April 11, 2015 2:21 pm  #183


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

I don't find anything unusual, untoward or strange about the arrangement of seating in TSoT at all.  Just like I don't find the analysis of the piece posted by SusiGo well thought out at all (it seems to me more like someone straining really hard to fit something into a "theory"). 

The best man should be beside the groom (not the bride) so if the bride and groom were reversed (according to that blog, meta or whatever it is called on tumblr) then the best man should be reversed as well.  Ergo... John and Sherlock should be seated beside each other.  The only thing that doesn't go along with custom is having the maid of honour not beside Mary. 

But as it has already been mentioned it isn't unusual today that people don't follow all the conventions of past wedding customs, so people can arrange it anyway they want and it isn't something that would cause anyone to give it consideration. 

And of course since this is a film and not real life, the writers probably just wanted the most important characters to be "in frame" in order of story importance (first and formost Sherlock and John, then Mary close by and then everyone else.). 

-Val
 


"The only shipping I know is shipping containers."
                                           -Benedict Cumberbatch
 

April 11, 2015 4:21 pm  #184


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

I think the creators made every effort to put Sherlock and John in the centre of the whole wedding episode: the seating arrangements, the way it was filmed (we have discussed this extensively), the choice of dress, Sherlock's entry and video on John's blog, the fact that Sherlock throws his boutonniere which IMO reflects the tradition of the bride throwing her bouquet, the fact that Janine who catches the boutonniere is indeed the next to get a proposal (even if it is fake), etc. 
Individually, all these things might be random or coincidental, but not in total. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 11, 2015 7:37 pm  #185


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Whisky wrote:

Did a bit of research on the internet. Found this:
"The best man is the leader of the groom’s men. He is the right hand of the groom and the date for the maid of honor. His outfit should complement the groom’s without matching exactly and without overwhelming the groom’s."
I think Sherlock a) wears exactly the same and b) he looks kind of overwhelming..........

Also this:
"Think of it like this. The best man’s suit or tuxedo is one step removed from the groom. If the groom is wearing a white dinner jacket, the best man should wear black. If the groom is wearing a double breasted coat, the best man should wear a single breasted. If the groom wears a red rose, the best man should wear a white one." (http://blog.knotstandard.com/best-man-wear/)
I cannot see Sherlock and John follow that rule either.

We know that Sherlock is not the one for obeying social rules and being frequently around weddings and marriages, so his improper dressing style maybe indicated how out of it he felt during the whole ordeal. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

April 11, 2015 7:38 pm  #186


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Ordeal - truer words never haven been spoken. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 11, 2015 10:50 pm  #187


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

@Seating..should aways be lady - gent -lady @ formals...they are breaking the traditions...but Sherlock was a bit meh with old fashioned tradition as we saw him scoff @Mary about them earlier in the episode..maybe the seating was the dispute then?..... amusing SH got his way at Marys wedding .

 

April 12, 2015 6:32 am  #188


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Ah-chie wrote:

But as it has already been mentioned it isn't unusual today that people don't follow all the conventions of past wedding customs, so people can arrange it anyway they want and it isn't something that would cause anyone to give it consideration.  

This is not a real-life wedding where people simply don't follow traditions any longer. This is the wedding of one of the main characters of a show that choses every camera angle,every prop and every single note of the sound track with extreme care. The seating arrangement is nothing that just happened, it was surely very carefully planned by the creators.

Ah-chie wrote:

And of course since this is a film and not real life, the writers probably just wanted the most important characters to be "in frame" in order of story importance (first and formost Sherlock and John, then Mary close by and then everyone else.). 

Somehow, with a show like "Sherlock", I would never say that the creators "JUST" wanted to frame something in a special way. They wanted to frame John and Sherlock in a way almost all other TV shows and movies frame bride and groom.

I wonder why.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

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"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

April 12, 2015 8:41 pm  #189


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Schmiezi wrote:

Ah-chie wrote:

And of course since this is a film and not real life, the writers probably just wanted the most important characters to be "in frame" in order of story importance (first and formost Sherlock and John, then Mary close by and then everyone else.). 

Somehow, with a show like "Sherlock", I would never say that the creators "JUST" wanted to frame something in a special way. They wanted to frame John and Sherlock in a way almost all other TV shows and movies frame bride and groom.

I wonder why.

For me the answer is that John and Sherlock weren't framed like a "bride and groom" at all. The scenes were framed with the most important characters of the story front and centre (and BTW I looked at the scene extensively and Mary was included in the camera "frame" a lot of the time as well because she is important to this episode too). 

To me it isn't something that needs a lot of wondering about (nor a blog theorising about the JL significance of the head table positions). 

The creators utilised basic filming techniques very effectively.

Period.

Sherlock and John are the main characters in the story, (I think that's fairly obvious - even to those who don't subscribe to any Johnlock being attached to the show) and thus they get centre frame most of the time.  The whole series has always been about Sherlock and John's friendship... so why would TSoT be any different?  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


-Val
 


"The only shipping I know is shipping containers."
                                           -Benedict Cumberbatch
 

April 12, 2015 8:49 pm  #190


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

As I said before, they use lots of traditional elements (the proposal, the seating, the throwing of the bouquet, the anticipated wedding dance in 221B) and apply them to Sherlock and John. IMO this goes far beyond stressing that they are the most important characters, something which does not expressly has to be pointed out. It has been known since ACD wrote the stories. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

April 12, 2015 8:50 pm  #191


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

I do agree with Ah-chie here, even being a Johnlocker. Sherlock is framed in the middle because he carries the entire wedding. You can't have a 45 minutes long speech like that with the person holding it being to one of the sides. And naturally John has to be on either of his sides for their communication throughout the speech.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 12, 2015 8:55 pm  #192


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Who carries an entire wedding if not bride and groom?


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 12, 2015 8:58 pm  #193


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Not when the wedding is a prop to the main character.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 12, 2015 9:02 pm  #194


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 12, 2015 9:03 pm  #195


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

I agree with the wedding being a prop, but it's a prop to Sherlock's declaration of love for John (following John proposing to Sherlock).


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 12, 2015 9:19 pm  #196


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Well, it is a prop to declaration of love from Sherlock to John. That is more or less stated word for word from Moftiss, isn't it?


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

April 13, 2015 6:55 am  #197


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

And very much emphasized visually 


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

http://picload.org/image/lcowadi/osajrand2.jpg
 

April 13, 2015 7:11 am  #198


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Absolutely.
And the thing is, you don't really need this declaration of love to take place during the wedding of John and Mary, there certainly are lots of other possibilities. Unless of course you want to make a statement. And for me the statement is "This is a wedding, but it's not John's and Mary's".


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 13, 2015 7:20 am  #199


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

"This is a wedding carried by the main characters"
aka "This is a wedding carried by bride and groom"


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 19, 2015 10:47 am  #200


Re: This wedding is an extremely strange one!

Someone on tumblr just discovered something really interesting. But before posting the link let me say this: We mentioned the fact that the wedding party seems like a random assembly, many people without any obvious connection to Mary and John (and it has been stated that she does not many people to invite because of her "being an orphan"). To me some of the men look like nightclub bouncers or thugs, tbh. 

SO even if you do not share the assumptions about phallic objects and bi-colored flags, please have a look at this, especially the first part:

http://cupidford.tumblr.com/post/116805153170/in-a-show-where-every-detail-counts

Her name is Georgie Leonard and she lists both episodes on her website:

http://www.castingcallpro.com/uk/actor/profile/georgie-leonard




 

Last edited by SusiGo (April 19, 2015 11:06 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

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