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May 20, 2016 11:58 am  #141


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

Oh that's interesting. What a simple line can do to see things differently. Good that we watch it in English so we all hear the same first.


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Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from!
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May 23, 2016 2:17 pm  #142


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 23, 2016 3:25 pm  #143


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

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May 23, 2016 3:58 pm  #144


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

I do think it was unintentional and doesn't have to read that way!
Anyhow, what do they know?


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May 23, 2016 6:00 pm  #145


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

It seems like a pretty direct translation to me.


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May 23, 2016 6:04 pm  #146


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean.
I obviously can't question the Spanish, as I don' speak Spanish.
But it's obviously a mistranslation from the English, which I assume is in error.
But 2 men alone with sore knees, could mean any number of things...trying to wipe the image of Sally Donovan. 
In fact that's the difference, the joke about Sally was deliberate.


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May 23, 2016 6:07 pm  #147


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

You think? It seems to me like they are saying the same thing, just worded a bit differently.


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May 23, 2016 6:11 pm  #148


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

Well the Spanish one may appear to say the same thing, but Sherlock was written in English.
Do you think the team meant that joke in the original, in TAB?
I've not heard anyone mention this before and the thought had never crossed my mind.
But 2 men sitting together is totally innocuous.


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May 23, 2016 6:25 pm  #149


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

The difference is that the English dialogue mentions that they are sitting, not the usual position for such activities. The Spanish version omits the sitting and therefore makes it much more ambiguous. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 23, 2016 6:34 pm  #150


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

But the sitting is already implicit - we can see them sitting there. And usually when they are together they are running around and often there are other people around or nearby.


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May 23, 2016 6:42 pm  #151


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

It might be one to be added to the list of things to ask the team.
But really, I think the implication for me is: normally when they are sitting alone together, they are in the flat and have either just returned from a case, so are glad of a rest.
Or, they are trying to find a case to stop Sherlock going demented.
Here it seems they are stuck, they can't go anywhere. They know what is going to happen, but are just waiting for it to happen.
It's also the dead of night they are in hiding and have to be quiet...
The biggest implication to me is that John believes he has Sherlock captive: Sherlock can't turn over in a sulk, walk out or storm off...he has to sit and listen to John and he cant pretend to be distracted by anything else to ignore John's mortifying line of interrogation!
It's more like they are in a police interview room, or or in the psychologist's office.

Last edited by besleybean (May 23, 2016 6:43 pm)


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May 23, 2016 7:05 pm  #152


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

Oh, that's really funny! (The mistranslation).  Especially if it's true that the Spanish translations usually try to avoid any innuendo!  Also kind of funny because the humour in the original comes from Sherlock's deliberate misunderstanding. 

(I see there's some difference of opinion on the meaning in the original - I take it to mean that John says they don't often sit together "like this", meaning alone, without distractions, man to man (John isn't in 221B at this point), and Sherlock probably deliberately misinterprets "like this" to mean "in this position" to try to deflect John from an intimate conversation.)

 

May 23, 2016 7:13 pm  #153


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

Quite so.


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May 23, 2016 7:31 pm  #154


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

There is so much innuendo in the show that I really cannot believe that this is completely unintentional. (especially knowing Mark's other literary output). 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

May 23, 2016 7:57 pm  #155


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

Liberty wrote:

(I see there's some difference of opinion on the meaning in the original - I take it to mean that John says they don't often sit together "like this", meaning alone, without distractions, man to man (John isn't in 221B at this point), and Sherlock probably deliberately misinterprets "like this" to mean "in this position" to try to deflect John from an intimate conversation.)

Yes, this. This is why I don't think the Spanish version is a mistranslation. Both have the implication you mention here. The wording is a bit funnier, but that gist of it is the same


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May 23, 2016 8:42 pm  #156


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

I don't know, I think the meaning is a little different ... if Sherlock is trying to avoid intimacy (I know it's his mind palace, but he's still uncomfortable about it), then the last thing he's going to do is imply that they have sex together.   And also the position they are in doesn't really lend itself to sex.  So while John's "sit together like this" suggests they have an intimate conversation, Sherlock answers as if it means "sit together like this" (i.e. uncomfortably).  It's deflection, not trying to imply a sexual relationship.   There's a double meaning, but it's not sexual (except perhaps for an extra giggle by viewers, but not intended by Sherlock). 

Whereas in the Spanish translation, they've missed out "sit", the word Sherlock is associating with "murder on the knees".  So he's saying that being alone together is bad for the knees, rather than that sitting uncomfortably is bad for the knees.  As John hasn't said anything about the sitting part, or even "like this" (in this way), it looks as if there's something that happens when they're alone that hurts their knees.  It's kind of difficult to avoid a sexual double meaning there.  What on earth could they do only when alone that's bad for their knees? http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png
 

Sorry, long-winded explanation, but I think what's so funny is that the Spanish translation (which according to the article usually tries to avoid any sexual references at all) has actually added in a sexual double entendre that wasn't there in the first place!

Last edited by Liberty (May 23, 2016 8:46 pm)

 

May 23, 2016 8:46 pm  #157


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

And possibly that reflects cultural differences?
I don't know.
I just get form that whole scene that( as Liberty reminds us) this is all in Sherlock's MP, how he sees things and he clearly sees John trying to trap him into revealing his soul(so to speak), which he is just not prepared to do.


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May 24, 2016 6:52 am  #158


Re: Sherlock dubbed versions

I don't know if it reflects cultural differences (me being pretty ignorant of other cultures!).   I've heard that double entendres are very British, despite the French name - do double meanings not work so well in other languages?  (Shakespeare used loads of double meanings!). 

The translation has replaced the double meaning in John's first comment with a single meaning (there's no way it can be construed as John implying that they are sitting uncomfortably).   Is it possible that the translator just missed that there was a double meaning? 

I was going to say that then the translator adds a double meaning to Sherlock's comment, as it now makes no sense for him to say that it hurts his knees to sit like this (as John hasn't mentioned anything about sitting like this, only about being alone together).   But actually, it's veering very closely to being a single meaning, because without John's comment, what can it possibly mean?   What was the translator thinking?  Did they really think Sherlock's knees comment just referred to them being alone?  And is that due to double meanings not working so well if not in English?

 

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