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June 19, 2014 7:40 am  #161


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Spoilers below....
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I was honestly expecting at least ONE good person to die....wait, I know a couple of more minor characters got it...but, I was expecting either Gus, Molly or Lou to get it, and was slightly disappointed that they were left with their happy ending whilst the two "bad guys" essentially got their just deserves. It's always better, in my opinion, when at least one good guy dies and at least one bad guy gets away with it.


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June 19, 2014 8:34 am  #162


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

What I found fascinating is how they played with the viewer's emotional attachment to the characters, especially Lester. At least where I'm concerned, he gradually and almost imperceptibly went from guy you pity and sympathize with to psychopathic, cold-hearted jerk whom you wouldn't mind seeing dead. That's quite a feat in the space of ten episodes and speaks to the quality of the writing and acting.

Last edited by TeeJay (June 19, 2014 8:35 am)


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June 19, 2014 10:24 am  #163


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

TeeJay wrote:

What I found fascinating is how they played with the viewer's emotional attachment to the characters, especially Lester. At least where I'm concerned, he gradually and almost imperceptibly went from guy you pity and sympathize with to psychopathic, cold-hearted jerk whom you wouldn't mind seeing dead. That's quite a feat in the space of ten episodes and speaks to the quality of the writing and acting.

 
Yes, I agree!
I read a recap which linked Malvo stepping in the bear trap with the tale he told the deaf guy in hospital about a bear in a trap dying on his own terms. I suppose Malvo's death did have that kind of feel, especially in comparison to Lester whose death was actually a bit pathetic.

Parables were a big part of the show although I have to say Molly's one to Lester about the glove annoyed me a bit. My husband and I had an argument about what it meant. I felt she was saying that when Lester killed his first wife it set down the path where it was easier to kill the next person. Hubby thought there must be a deeper, stronger meaning to the glove tale. IMO the telling of the tale felt very out of place and out of character for Molly who always seemed more likely to call a cigar a cigar.


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June 19, 2014 5:53 pm  #164


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

'Yes' to all of you!  Enjoyed those comments… and definitely agree about the 'typical' tropes in writing when it comes to good/bad characters, SH… sometimes writers can be cliche with it, or good with it, but I still was half-expecting it too!  Bill or Lou, at the least… I didn't think they'd touch the 'happy family', and thought at least Lester might make it out (or in jail with his brother, or brother freed).  Still, kudos to them for twisting our sympathies through such a short 'season', and that amazing acting at the end.  Billy Bob and Martin had me on the edge of my seat!

NotYour - huh… neat way of putting it.  You're right about her character… but still, after those great lines about the 'predators seeing green' and the 'bear in a trap' and the riddles stuff, it was neat to have one thrown at Lester.  I thought she was referring to the fact that 'We're letting you go so we can hopefully find the other glove (Lorne) show up next to you'.   But that could be twisting it a bit.


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We solve crimes, I blog about it, and he forgets his pants.  I wouldn't hold out too much hope!

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June 19, 2014 9:51 pm  #165


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Russell wrote:

NotYour - huh… neat way of putting it. You're right about her character… but still, after those great lines about the 'predators seeing green' and the 'bear in a trap' and the riddles stuff, it was neat to have one thrown at Lester. I thought she was referring to the fact that 'We're letting you go so we can hopefully find the other glove (Lorne) show up next to you'. But that could be twisting it a bit.

Actually that makes sense too!  I think I like that interpetation of the glove parable better than mine!
 


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June 19, 2014 10:21 pm  #166


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

I was so gutted about Lester. I was really still rooting for him despite everything. In my head, he managed to escape and is now living it up in Florida wearing a Hawaiin shirt, sat at a beach bar drinking Martini and surrounded by pretty women all doting on him.


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June 20, 2014 6:11 am  #167


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Big congratulations to Billy Bob for his Critic's Choice win.
I had never ever heard of/seen him before this and I think he is brilliant.
And to Allison, too...the above also applies to her!

Last edited by besleybean (June 20, 2014 6:16 am)


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June 20, 2014 6:41 am  #168


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Ms Jolie's ex!
I've not seen Fargo but I've heard a lot about how great he is in it.


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June 20, 2014 11:31 am  #169


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

I was so gutted about Lester. I was really still rooting for him despite everything. In my head, he managed to escape and is now living it up in Florida wearing a Hawaiin shirt, sat at a beach bar drinking Martini and surrounded by pretty women all doting on him.

LOL! Heh, I could imagine that too. But, you know, I personally wanted to see Lester punished there by the end.

Someone mentioned earlier that Lester shows all the symptoms of being a psychopath, and I was starting to see it too. He never seemed to have any true emotional attachment to any of the people in his life, be it his wives or his brother and family.

A lot of his actions were cruel and calculated. I mean, he encouraged his wife to wear his orange jacket, knowing full well that Malvo was only waiting to kill her as soon as she entered the insurance agency. He wasn't a good guy.

Did he deserve to die? I wouldn't go that far, but I'd like to think he definitely deserved some form of punishment.


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June 20, 2014 4:35 pm  #170


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

besleybean wrote:

Big congratulations to Billy Bob for his Critic's Choice win.
I had never ever heard of/seen him before this and I think he is brilliant.
And to Allison, too...the above also applies to her!

 
They did??  Awesome!  And the show, too!  (although saw the appropriate thread by this point… a shame none of our other favorites won!)

And definitely concur about Lester… although like I said earlier, really did not expect that kind of ending for him… almost thoughtfully/metaphorically fitting, though, having it be Nature that got him, rather than people?


_________________________________________________________________________

We solve crimes, I blog about it, and he forgets his pants.  I wouldn't hold out too much hope!

Just this morning you were all tiny and small and made of clay!

I'm working my way up the greasy pole.  It's… very greasy.  And…  pole-shaped.
 

June 20, 2014 6:53 pm  #171


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

I didn't love the finale, but I mostly enjoyed it.  I do think "A Fox, A Rabbit, and a Cabbage" was the high point of the series, followed closely by "The Heap".  

I thought Molly's story to Lester was there for contrast.  Her story of morality (the man knows that the glove is useless to him so tosses it in hopes that somebody else will benefit) vs. the logic puzzle presented to him by Budge and Pepper.  The morality escapes him but the logic is obvious to him right away.  It gets right to the heart of what kind of person Lester is.

The end of Lester was very fitting, I thought.  I was hoping that we'd see him rotting behind bars with all of his lies finally exposed and nobody left to pass the blame to, but I was satisfied with what we were given.  I appreciate the symmetry of a man who a) lived in a constant state of fear, b) refused to face the consequences of his own actions, and c) was both too dim and too arrogant to heed any signs of danger - dying because of, literally, those exact things.

I did feel like the finale wrapped things up a little too neatly and felt like it was a bit of a cop out to have both of the bad guys dead and the good guys living happily ever after.  Blech.  I would've been happier with one minor tweak to the ending actually - Gus going to jail.  I think it would have been an ending just unhappy enough to fit the darkness of the show without bringing permanent tragedy into the Solverson/Grimley family.  As it stands, I can buy that the Bemidji police would turn a blind eye to what happened in that cabin but I don't buy that they'd give him a citation for bravery.  Give me a break.

I felt like Molly was sidelined far too much in the finale.  I'm happy that she gets to be Chief, I love the scene with her and Bill (probably my favorite of the finale and a lovely showcase for Bob Odenkirk), but I wanted her to take down at least one of those guys and I'm upset that she didn't get that.  Yes, she got the satisfaction of being proven right, but I really wanted more than that for her.  

I loved Keith Carradine, he's an actor who can do so much with so little and I enjoyed all of his scenes with Molly and with Greta.  I also loved the call back to the guy Lester failed to sell life insurance to in the first episode.  I thought it was hilariously twisted that they were bringing him back to have Malvo kill him off in the finale.  Though, I do believe Malvo actually let him go.  Both cars were gone from Lester's house...

Definitely excited for awards season.  I believe Fargo is a lock for a Miniseries win but they have actual competition in the acting categories from The Normal Heart.  I am definitely Team Allison Tolman.  A win for her would make me happiest.  The Mark Ruffalo/Martin Freeman/Billy Bob Thornton showdown will be interesting.  If I were putting money on it I'd say it'll go to Ruffalo, but a strong case can be made for either of the Fargo boys.  Nobody else in that category has a chance.  It's a shame True Detective went Drama Series because the fiercest competition of the year would've been in Lead Actor in a Miniseries - Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Martin Freeman, Billy Bob Thornton, and Mark Ruffalo.  I'm sad for what could have been.

 

June 20, 2014 7:02 pm  #172


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Sherlock Holmes wrote:

Spoilers below....
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I was honestly expecting at least ONE good person to die....wait, I know a couple of more minor characters got it...but, I was expecting either Gus, Molly or Lou to get it, and was slightly disappointed that they were left with their happy ending whilst the two "bad guys" essentially got their just deserves. It's always better, in my opinion, when at least one good guy dies and at least one bad guy gets away with it.

I was not surprised at all.  
It echos and re-enforces the themes of the original film.  Sometimes what is simple and good does win out.


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June 23, 2014 12:06 am  #173


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

I liked the happy ending.
Well I was a bit confused about Gus not going to jail, though...

I didn't want Malvo to kill Lester, but when he fell into the ice I didn't feel a pity... I just thought, in the end he dies like the two guys tried to kill him in between (sorry forgot the names).

I really thought the would make Malvo kill Gus and when Malvo started to show signs of life again, I thought he'd have a gun proof vest on...
 


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June 23, 2014 5:39 am  #174


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

My hubby thought the same about the vest.
Well it was very good and I have enjoyed it.
But I'm not unhappy my Sunday nigths can return to being a tad more peaceful!


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June 23, 2014 7:37 am  #175


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Yeah about the vest thing, I thought he'd stand up or throw the knife on Gus, I was so scared...
The grin with the blood, pure evil...

Btw, I wonder about what kind of passport did Malvo steal from the car in front of the police station?

And yes, it was hard to sleep after this, because all thoughts and stuff...


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It feels squishy! Is it supposed to feel squishy?

You’ve salted away every fact under the sun!
 

June 23, 2014 8:15 am  #176


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Btw when Malvo hit Lester with the trophy, I thought, oh the nose again ;).


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It feels squishy! Is it supposed to feel squishy?

You’ve salted away every fact under the sun!
 

June 23, 2014 11:34 am  #177


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Just watched the final. The results were just like what I had expected (Lester and Malvo being dead), but the plot towards this ending was not quite what I had expected. I agree, compared to 'A Fox, a Rabbit, and a Cabbage' this episode was a tad weaker. I expected a bit more of a show-down. But on the other hand a big shoot out between all characters wouldn't have fit into the atmosphere of the series. @zeratul: I had the same thought about the nose .
I hadn't remebered Malvo's tale about the bear in the trap until I read NotYour's comment (thank you for the reminder ). I think therefore Malvo's death is very fitting. Although I don't understand how Gus could get away with killing him. It was murder after all, Malvo was injured and unarmed. That leaves a negative connotation for me. Although I don't mind the happy ending. I am actually relieved that nothing happened to Molly and her family.
I enjoyed Fargo very much. I hadn't expected such a great and intelligent series and I am deeply impressed by Martin's and Billy Bob Thorton's acting. Award season will be very tough though. Especially if Sherlock and Fargo competing against each other .
 


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June 23, 2014 12:00 pm  #178


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Malvo wasn't exactely unarmed, he had the knife (he cut his trousers with it) and he could have thrown it...


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It feels squishy! Is it supposed to feel squishy?

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June 23, 2014 2:10 pm  #179


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Yeah, sure, but Gus shot at him 4 or 5 times. A bit exaggerated for self-defense towards an injured person. A shot in the arm to immobilized him would have been sufficient for that.


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"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
 

June 23, 2014 2:23 pm  #180


Re: Fargo Discussion (WITH SPOILERS)

Yeah, well maybe the American right works a little different? We didn't get any explanating, I am not sure if it was mandatory for the audience in America?
Was there a difference because he used to be at the police?


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It feels squishy! Is it supposed to feel squishy?

You’ve salted away every fact under the sun!
 

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