BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Things we will never know but are curious about

Molly Hooper · June 17, 2012 5:33 pm

I know Jim's a psychopath but would he really kill someone for that?!

hypergreenfrog · June 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Irene Adler wrote:
I believe he kept the shoes because there was evidence in them that Carl had been poisoned. That's why Sherlock finally finds out the boy was killed and did not just drown.

Thanks, that's cleared that up for me

Davina · June 17, 2012 6:19 pm

Yes, Molly, he would. He actually says that 'little Carl had to die because he laughed at me.' scary eh!

Irene Adler · June 17, 2012 6:37 pm

hypergreenfrog wrote:
Irene Adler wrote:
I believe he kept the shoes because there was evidence in them that Carl had been poisoned. That's why Sherlock finally finds out the boy was killed and did not just drown.
Thanks, that's cleared that up for me

You're welcome. I don't really know if it's the truth, but it is what I have always thought.

Sentimental Pulse · June 17, 2012 7:21 pm

I just re-watched The Blind Banker and it still infuriates me that the boys run off and leave Soo Lin unprotected in the museum.

tobeornot221b · June 17, 2012 7:38 pm

Sentimental Pulse wrote:
I just re-watched The Blind Banker and it still infuriates me that the boys run off and leave Soo Lin unprotected in the museum.

I posted my thought on this somewhere here I believe, but for me it's for "practical" dramatic reasons, albeit cynical:
Soo Lin had to die because if she had survived she had told Sherlock about the London A-Z and the episode would have ended way too quickly.

kazza474 · June 18, 2012 3:29 am

hypergreenfrog wrote:
Sorry for picking up a question from page 1 of this thread, but I am quite curious about the boy in the pool. We assume that Moriarty poisoned him, because of some insult or other. But why did he keep his shoes?
Even for a highly intelligent psychopath (teenager?) it seems a bit far fetched that he would steal the shoes from the locker just to find out if anyone would notice, let alone keep them for 20 years in case they might come in handy one day.
Any ideas?

Carl was a boy who treasured his shoes. Back then (and even now) footwear to athletic people can be somewhat of a statement especially for teenager boys..
I doubt Moriarty kept them because he thought someone would analyse them & discover the poison. The poison would have been evident on many parts of his body. But no-one suspected poisoning and why would they? He had a medical condition and that suited the findings of a death by accident so why delve deeper into a child's death?
He didn't keep them because he thought young Sherlock would be after him; they didn't know each other as children.

He took from Carl something that was his most treasured possession. I would believe he kept them as a trophy, a reminder of possibly his first victim. A reminder to him that if people get in his way or mock him, he can destroy them without ever having the blame pinned on him.
And isn't that how all his crimes have been, unless of course he wanted them pinned on him as with the breaks ins, etc.

Sherlock Holmes · June 18, 2012 7:27 pm

Yeah, a lot of killers keep trophies from their victims. And let's not forget that Moriarty is a killer, no matter how sweet and lovable some people seem to think he is, he's basically a complete psychopath! No one else would blow their brains out just to force someone else into committing suicide...you'd have to be pretty nuts to do that in my opinion.

Sentimental Pulse · June 20, 2012 10:08 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Yeah, a lot of killers keep trophies from their victims. And let's not forget that Moriarty is a killer, no matter how sweet and lovable some people seem to think he is, he's basically a complete psychopath! No one else would blow their brains out just to force someone else into committing suicide...you'd have to be pretty nuts to do that in my opinion.

Yes Moriarty is certifiably crazy. Anything he did would never surprise me.

sherlockskitty · June 23, 2012 2:58 am

When I first realized who killed Carl Powers, I thought--" this really smacks of being laughed at." Yeah, I had the same problem as a kid. But I didn't go out and kill. So, what made Moriarty into that sort of person? And what made Moriarty clever enough to realize that he could get Sherlock to 'commit suicide?'

Davina · June 23, 2012 7:57 am

Here we can have a 'nature v. nurture debate about Moriarty ( and Sherlock, in fact).

VivaCohen · June 26, 2012 4:56 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Don't know - just to creep out the woman cop I guess. I can't believe she actually did it though, why didn't she just say no.

I know, right?! And the other cop guy was all nodding like "Yeah, go for it" lol
If some sleazy criminal asked me to stick my hand in their pocket and I absolutely had to, I wouldn't slowly slide it in in a sexually suggestive manner, either lol But that's t.v. for you I guess

kazza474 · June 27, 2012 2:46 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Yeah, a lot of killers keep trophies from their victims. And let's not forget that Moriarty is a killer, no matter how sweet and lovable some people seem to think he is, he's basically a complete psychopath! No one else would blow their brains out just to force someone else into committing suicide...you'd have to be pretty nuts to do that in my opinion.

You can't say that!
There MUST be deeper meaning to it than that; apparently.

Sherlock Holmes · June 27, 2012 9:58 am

kazza474 wrote:
Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Yeah, a lot of killers keep trophies from their victims. And let's not forget that Moriarty is a killer, no matter how sweet and lovable some people seem to think he is, he's basically a complete psychopath! No one else would blow their brains out just to force someone else into committing suicide...you'd have to be pretty nuts to do that in my opinion.
You can't say that!
There MUST be deeper meaning to it than that; apparently.

Indeed. It's a clue we all missed.

kazza474 · June 27, 2012 10:21 am

Oh there you are; I've been hanging in the PALACE.
Just chillin , you know how it is.

Morton · June 30, 2012 1:10 pm

sherlockskitty wrote:
When I first realized who killed Carl Powers, I thought--" this really smacks of being laughed at." Yeah, I had the same problem as a kid. But I didn't go out and kill. So, what made Moriarty into that sort of person? And what made Moriarty clever enough to realize that he could get Sherlock to 'commit suicide?'

Ah but you have morals. Moriarty doesn't, he doesn't play by those rules. To him it would be boring and I would think that being exceptionally intelligent means that it takes very challenging things to keep you from being bored. As Sherlock approximately says in SIP Genius needs an audience, a genius likes to show off to prove their brilliance to someone else but solving puzzles as Sherlock does or inventing manipulative games as Moriarty did is a way of proving your cleverness to your own satisfaction. Therefore Moriarty manipulated the situation to murder Carl.

I'd say he wasn't clever enough. Sherlock chose the roof of Barts to limit the obvious ways of playing Moriarty's game to playing it by his rules and by apparently going off that roof, he could stage manage his "death" if jumping was unavoidable. The fall that Moriarty was intending for Sherlock was his fall from grace and favour of the police, newspapers and the public and was meant to make Sherlock fall from the position that John regarded him as being in.

IMHO

Sherlock Holmes · July 8, 2012 4:41 pm

I noticed a couple of cool ones in Hounds last night...

I've often wondered where they got the car from. I mean, they get a taxi to Paddington station, and then they get the train to Dartmoor but how do they get the car?

Also, when they check into the Cross Keys pub the guy says he's got them a double room - so doesn't that mean they'll be sharing a bed?

SusiGo · July 8, 2012 5:02 pm

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
I noticed a couple of cool ones in Hounds last night...

I've often wondered where they got the car from. I mean, they get a taxi to Paddington station, and then they get the train to Dartmoor but how do they get the car?

Also, when they check into the Cross Keys pub the guy says he's got them a double room - so doesn't that mean they'll be sharing a bed?

Now that you mention the car - I was somehow astonished to see Sherlock driving a car. Don't know why, maybe because he always goes by cab (or tube, on his pig harpooning days).

Could have been a twin room. Interesting idea, though.

Mattlocked · July 8, 2012 5:09 pm

Didn't the guy at the pub said he would have given them a double room, but there weren't any vacant?
Because he was homosexuall and took it for granted that Sherlock and John are, too.
I understood it as another part of the running gag through the episodes. Like the candle in the restaurant.

I see, I have to watch all this 3 times more...

Sherli Bakerst · July 8, 2012 5:22 pm

Re the car: I figured they rented it at the train station when they arrived in Dartmoor. Surely there would be tourist-related businesses either inside the station or nearby? It didn't strike me as at all odd that Sherlock would be driving a car. When I lived in New York City, I didn't have a car because I didn't need one, but I did know how to drive one.

Re the room at the inn: A hotel room can be intended for two people but have either two beds in it or just one bed; it depends on what's asked for and what's available. When I travel with my sister, we always share a room but have separate beds.