BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Things we will never know but are curious about

kazza474 · March 6, 2012 12:58 am

Sherlock Holmes wrote:
Also, if he did the same trick to every fare he picked up, then presumably he would have killed a lot more than 4, unless he was just a real slacker who couldn't be bothered picking up fares.

It does get monotonous bumping off every passenger, plus it makes it harder to get paid the fare.

Davina · March 6, 2012 1:44 pm

No wonder he needed a sponsor! Lol

tobeornot221b · March 6, 2012 5:35 pm

Something I'd like to know:
How does Sherlock know that Moriarty doesn't take sugar in his tea?
When preparing tea Sherlock just puts one spoon into one cup's saucer - namely the one for himself.

Davina · March 6, 2012 6:41 pm

Oo that's a good point. Reckon he knows more about Moriarty than anyone suspects, including Moriarty himself!

Sherlock Holmes · March 6, 2012 9:15 pm

Probably he wasn't sure so just left it without sugar. If Moriarty wanted sugar he could have added it himself, but you can't remove it once it's been put in!

tobeornot221b · March 6, 2012 9:27 pm

No, that’s not the point.
When I’m going to have guests for tea or coffee who I’m not sure of whether they take sugar or not I will add spoons to ALL of their cups – just in case! Only when I’m absolutely certain that they won’t – I’ll leave out the spoon. You see? Sherlock seems to be – and approves to be perfectly right! – about Moriarty’s not taking sugar.

Sherlock Holmes · March 6, 2012 9:39 pm

But what if you put sugar in and then it turned out they didn't take it? Then you'd have to make the whole cup again which would be a shameful waste of tea!

tobeornot221b · March 6, 2012 9:54 pm

Ok – I know what you mean. We here in Germany would never put any sugar or milk into our guests’ tea or coffee. (Unless they are very young children, of course!) Everyone's helping themselves. That’s unlike you Brits do, I presume. We don’t have a "I'll be mother..." thing. We just pour the tea/coffee. Sugar bowl and milk jug are ready on the table and there are spoons with each cup. Every guest puts in his tea/coffee what he/she likes.

Sherlock Holmes · March 6, 2012 10:27 pm

I suppose we do have a tradition of making tea for other people!

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 3:12 am

Sherlock knows everything he needs to know about Moriarty.
He's done his research.
Do you think Mycroft would hold a man for questioning for ages without offering him a cup of tea? There is never any excuse to drop standards. Our standards are what define us.

tobeornot221b · March 7, 2012 4:45 am

This little fact might imply to us a far closer cooperation concerning Moriarty between Mycroft and Sherlock. Interesting!
Despite the "history between us"...

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 4:59 am

You really have to get past the 'history between us' line.
Do you not think that maybe Mycroft is just as good at acting out a plan as Sherlock?

As we've discussed before, the sibling rivalry thing really is all for show.

It's similar to my sister & I. We live probably 10 minutes away from each other, yet haven't seen each other in some time. But we know the other is there when needed. She wouldn't know that I have been 'Sherlocked' for the past few months, nor would she care. If anyone asks me to give her a message I'd say "tell her yourself, I haven't seen her and am not expected to'. But if I had to plan to move away quickly for some unknown reason, she'd be here tomorrow to help me pack.
So to the outside world, it appears that we don't like each other very much. Yet I spent everyday over Xmas by her bedside in hospital while she was ill as the rest of the family had already gone away on holiday.

So don't take the 'too much history' sentence as being complete fact.
Yes, they grate on each other (so do my sister & I); but when needed, they are the first to help the other brother.

tobeornot221b · March 7, 2012 5:07 am

I agree. As I said before, for my taste the rivalry between Mycroft and Sherlock is too often emphasized to be utterly believable. They care for each other - whether they want it or not! I mean, the spoon thing could be a clue for us viewers. Of course Mycroft plays the main part in faking Sherlock's death in order to finally catch Moriarty and destroy his criminal web.

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 5:12 am

I honestly think the spoon thing is just an oversight. I noticed it when I first watched it. I thought "Presumptuous little thing isn't Sherlock".
There will always be a certain amount of continuity issues in filming, especially when there are so many parts to the story and so many other more important things to contend with.
Just shows Moftiss is partly human, not fully human just partly.

tobeornot221b · March 7, 2012 5:27 am

I'm sticking to it - until proven wrong. Looking at the prepared tea tray I notice the lack of symmetry (just ONE spoon!) whereas symmetry in the relationship between Sherlock and Moriarty - and especially in this tea scene is everything. Being each other's mirror.
Well, only a few months to go, Mofftiss! )

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 5:51 am

Not much symmetry in that scene. More like two antagonists circling each other.
Sherlock offers a chair. Moriarty takes the opposite one.
Sherlock offers a cup of tea; handle facing the wrong way for the left handed Moriarty.
From then on in, it's just Sherlock feeding the massive ego; the massive ego telling a story.
The massive ego delivers his message and fades away leaving his IOU as payment.

Davina · March 7, 2012 7:02 am

When Sherlock offers the chair I think he knows that Moriarty will not take it but take the other. This is a situation in which Moriarty would not wish to be seen to give any superiority away to Sherlock, which accepting the chair offered would do. I'm thinking that the difference in cup design too is just a design feature or is it more than that?

I would agree, also, about the Mycroft/Sherlock rivalry thing. What seems to be the main problem between them, apart from who used to upset Mummy, is that Mycroft tries to control Sherlock too much. He says he 'worries about him constantly'. Sherlock objects to Mycroft bossing him about and this leads to the childish behaviour with the sheet in Buckingham Palace which culminates in Sherlock's stroppy 'tell me who my client is!' Sherlock also retorts to Mycroft's threat of 'do you want me to order you' in The Great Game with 'I'd like to see you try!' What is important to remember is that Sherlock describes his brother to John, just after John's first meeting with Mycroft as: 'The most dangerous man you have ever met'. Bearing in mind John has just returned from fighting in Afghanistan that is quite a statement.

Much of Sherlock and Mycroft's interactions are merely silly bickerings, such as the ongoing diet comments. When it matters, really matters, Mycroft is there and at times is shown to be more astute than Sherlock e.g. Scandal. He appears to feed information that is damaging to Sherlock to Moriarty, but I remain to be convinced that this wasn't deliberate.

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 7:05 am

The only thing childish about the sheet scene in the Palace is that Sherlock stopped! And Mycroft lifted his foot eventually.

As far I I know the tea cups were the same design, it was a tea set. I must check now.

Davina · March 7, 2012 7:33 am

Ah! They're not! You know! Tea Hee.

kazza474 · March 7, 2012 8:49 am

Davina wrote:
Ah! They're not! You know! Tea Hee.

Hmm nope, they look the same to me.

Remember they are holding the cups differently, Moriarty left handed, Sherlock right handed.
The motif on the inside and outside is visible on Moriarty's yet Sherlock's are both turned inward and you can't see them.