BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Series 1/2 and series 3

SolarSystem · April 30, 2014 9:31 am

I understand what you mean, mrshouse, but I don't actually have all that much of a problem with Mary in that scene or with the chemistry she may or may not have with Sherlock.
My problem is that the scene in itself, is too long, too uninteresting, not suspenseful enough as an action scene. I seriously doubt that I would like it better if we had Sherlock and John on that bike, for example.
Many action scenes in tv shows or movies don't do very much for me and quite often are far too long and not very gripping, and mostly it doesn't make a difference which characters are involved in those scenes. I have to admit that even the showdown sequence in STID stretches out too long for my taste... and we're talking about Khan and Spock here!

SusiGo · April 30, 2014 9:35 am

I know what you mean. Many things we see in Sherlock are new and creative and this here is basically the usual chase scene no matter what vehicle you use. The only Sherlock thing about it are the text messages. It is one of the weaker scene for me while what comes directly before and after is very well done.

SolarSystem · April 30, 2014 9:40 am

SusiGo wrote:
I know what you mean. Many things we see in Sherlock are new and creative and this here is basically the usual chase scene no matter what vehicle you use. The only Sherlock thing about it are the text messages. It is one of the weaker scene for me while what comes directly before and after is very well done.

That's right. Although about the text messages... am I the only one who had trouble deciphering those when watching it for the first and second time?
But it's so true, the scene in 221B when Mary comes to Sherlock is just... heartbreaking. What a heartbreaking Sherlock...! And well, what can you say about Sherlock saving John's life right after the bike ride?

mrshouse · April 30, 2014 9:42 am

But I didn't verbalize that I have a problem with Mary here, did I? That's not the point, we discussed what the differences are between similar chasing scenes in various episodes and why the suspense feels much weaker.

SusiGo · April 30, 2014 9:52 am

SolarSystem wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
I know what you mean. Many things we see in Sherlock are new and creative and this here is basically the usual chase scene no matter what vehicle you use. The only Sherlock thing about it are the text messages. It is one of the weaker scene for me while what comes directly before and after is very well done.
That's right. Although about the text messages... am I the only one who had trouble deciphering those when watching it for the first and second time?
But it's so true, the scene in 221B when Mary comes to Sherlock is just... heartbreaking. What a heartbreaking Sherlock...! And well, what can you say about Sherlock saving John's life right after the bike ride?

So had I. They are very hard to read. The same goes for CAM's files, btw. You can read those only if by stopping the DVD or making screenshots.

Eating chips alone in the dark. I cannot get over that. And him saving John's life, well …

SolarSystem · April 30, 2014 9:53 am

mrshouse, yes, but for me the suspense and why it feels weaker doesn't have all that much to do with the characters involved in those scenes, that's what I was trying to say.
I don't think I insinuated that you are having a problem with Mary, did I...?

Last edited by SolarSystem (April 30, 2014 9:54 am)

mrshouse · April 30, 2014 9:57 am

Different thread alltogether, Solar...

BrettHolmes · April 30, 2014 9:34 pm

When I first watched Season Three on DVD, I had been disappointed by it. My response to TEH was mixed one. I had enjoyed TST even though it wasn’t of the show’s best. However, HLV was huge letdown as it got more and more ludicrous as it went along as if Moffat tried to do too much, too fast.

However, I enjoyed it much better when I rewatched the episodes. Things that had bothered me before didn’t bother me again. I think TEH and TST are good episodes and really like them. Although I still maintain that HLV was weak and overwrought even though I do admire Lars Mikkelson’s performance as well as the carpool scene and the entire dream sequence in which Sherlock has to desperately deduce how to survive after being shot.

The first two seasons had more plot in it and were more case centric. They had more crime solving, deductions, mystery, clues,etc. This third season I think was more about the characters and their relationships with emphasis on comedy. It seems like it is now moving in the direction of being a show all about the lives of its characters. Yet, Arthur Conan Doyle’s original stories were written as independent, self-contained adventures and not as an ongoing saga.

Still, I will continue to watch “Sherlock” as it remains a show with enormous potential and is 90% better than most TV out there. I just hope the show will get back to what made the season one and two so great.

SusiGo · April 30, 2014 9:41 pm

Really interesting how different people perceive the episodes. For me series 3 may be comedic on the surface, but TSoT for me is one of the saddest episodes. IMO TEH is the weakest of the three but then it was hard to fulfill expectations after TRF and it has many good scenes. As for HLV - I just love it. Acting, photography, script. Not that I was happy with everything Moffat did in the script but I still love it dearly.

SolarSystem · April 30, 2014 9:53 pm

I agree with Susi's ranking, TEH was the weakest episode, HLV the strongest, TSoT turned out to be very, very sad once you looked below the surface.
And I think that the whole S3 has far more sadness to it than S1/S2... it can be seen in all three episodes, even in TEH.

SusiGo · April 30, 2014 9:58 pm

Definitely. Of course TRF has much sadness and not only at the end but the rest of the series was not like that.
In series 3 there is an underlying sense of loss and loneliness and sadness throughout the episodes. And this is IMO not excusively but very much due to the fact that they are told from Sherlock's POV.

besleybean · May 1, 2014 5:51 am

Isn't that a reflection of life?
It isn't all roses for some and particulatly not for damaged John and his 'different' friend.

Zatoichi · May 1, 2014 6:43 am

That's one of the reasons why I like S1 and 2 more, they are so full of positive energy and leave me feeling happy and energized. S3 has so many tragic elements, sticky situations, suffering.. .. the comedy doesn't really work for me and I'm sad and uneasy after I watch all of them go through so much pain, heartbreak, loss.. I think S3 is brillantly written and visually stunning, the acting is just great and all characters develop in a way that reflects life, but I just don't like being made to feel that way. I feel I got something I didn't really sign up for.. Well, that's probably life, but nothing I would file under 'great entertainment' . Not because I have any complaints about the quality or direction of S3, just my personal problem with getting too emotionally involved in stories or characters I care about. I can't get myself to watch S3 again, and I have only seen it twice so far (TSoT only once).

Last edited by Zatoichi (May 1, 2014 7:01 am)

MartaSt · May 1, 2014 4:58 pm

Zatoichi wrote:
That's one of the reasons why I like S1 and 2 more, they are so full of positive energy and leave me feeling happy and energized. S3 has so many tragic elements, sticky situations, suffering.. ..

I agree but not quite. I think first two episodes of series 3 were very funny and had a lots of humor ( kissing scene with Sherlock and Moriarty at the roof, Sherlock trying to deal with Mary and John wedding - they were so hilarious). Yeah, I know, watching for example TSoT and thinking that after wedding things with Sherlock and John won't be the same anymore is sad but I wouldn't call it tragic But I agree that, in general, seasons 1 and 2 are more cheerful.

I'm still thinking which of this three seasons I like most. I love seasons 1 and 2 for genious dialogues, insults and humor, but I also love season 3 for showing development of all characters and especially development of connection between Sherlock and John (and for me it's more important than all of the cases).

But I really miss Sherlock's insults in season 3, previous seasons were full of them and season 3 has none or nearly none of them. I hope they'll fix it in 4 season

besleybean · May 1, 2014 5:19 pm

Maybe he's growing up.

MartaSt · May 1, 2014 5:27 pm

I think this kind of person would never grow up

SusiGo · May 1, 2014 5:31 pm

But the creators want to show his development. This is something they have said from the beginning. And which I appreciate.

MartaSt · May 1, 2014 5:41 pm

Ok, ok I agree, you've made a point. But still I'll miss them

tobeornot221b · May 20, 2014 6:54 pm

Something that just occurred to me.
Unlike series 1 and 2, series 3 didn't induce new places of Sherlock pilgrimage. At least for me.
In series 1 we had several locations I often went to when in London: Angelo's, Hungerford Bridge, Skaters Park, Shaftsbury avenue and, of course, North Gower Street and Speedy's.
Series 2 introduced Irene's place, the Tower and - yes, that hospital site whose name I've forgotten...

In series 3 most of the new locations seem to be a bit out of the real world (the wedding place, the Watsons' home, Appledore) - and not very specific. Maybe apart from Leinster Gardens. And the Tube. Not as much of London to be seen in it than in the previous series'.

maryagrawatson · May 20, 2014 9:35 pm

besleybean wrote:
Maybe he's growing up.

The writers made a huge mistake not focusing a little more on Sherlock's two years away. That's the key to understanding the 'personality changes' in Sherlock season 3.

Two years sounds like such a pittance of time, but it is amazing how your city can change and the people who knew you have moved on and yet stayed exactly the same while you have been shaped into something new through the adventures and travails of your absence. When you return, it's hard to fit in again because you are expected to be the exact same person that you were. Imagine Sherlock's two years away from his support system doing who knows what (I suspect he might have gotten his hands very dirty) and eventually being tortured.

I have major issues with how little the two years away was hammered into us (and it should have been based on the number of times I've seen a various of this discussion on various forums and blogs), but am glad that at least it's reflected in Sherlock's character growth. If season 3 had had the Sherlock from season 1 and 2, I would never have fallen as hard for the show as I ended up doing by the time the credits rolled in HLV.

Sherlock is definitely growing up. He understands that he loves certain people and that his actions and words can hurt them. He's probably been very, very lonely while away. His conversation in TEH with Mycroft about loneliness says a lot without saying much at all ("How would you know?").

Mary