Schmiezi wrote:

And here is the link:

http://ishuramjohnlocked.tumblr.com/post/89198421210/yes-i-know-youve-seen-this-before-but-i-need

And just imagine where Sherlock's and John's hands would be if they weren't in need of holding their hats...
 

Oh people will always talk...

I completely agree.

But the point is, Mary is not undercover NOW.
John knows all about her and has fully embraced her...at least he knows she's a fake, former assassin and shot his best friend...
Enough to be going on with for now, don't you think?
Why aren't we respecting John's decision?
Do we think there is more to it?

besleybean wrote:

But the point is, Mary is not undercover NOW.
John knows all about her and has fully embraced her...at least he knows she's a fake, former assassin and shot his best friend...
Enough to be going on with for now, don't you think?
Why aren't we respecting John's decision?
Do we think there is more to it?

Because i don't see that he fully embrace her. He even tells her that he is still angry. And yeah, i think there is much more to it. 

 

nakahara wrote:

John′s behaviour in HLV stirred much controversy among fans of the show. He was almost accused of being heartless. So what are your sugestions – what should John do in S4 to be redeemed in your eyes?
 
In my opinion:
 
John should stop whining „Sherlock, do you have a plan?“ when something misfires and he should concieve a plan of his own when such thing happens. He looks ridiculous when he follows Sherlock into dangerous situations willingly and then, when a problem arises, he demands from his friend „solve everything quickly, it′s your doing that I′m in this mess“. He is an adult man and he knew well what he is getting into, it doesn′t suit him to be so whiny.
 
It would be really good if John saved Sherlock from danger or protected him in the same BAMFy manner as canonical John Watson saves and protects Sherlock Holmes in „Devil′s Foot“ and in „Illustrious Client“.
 
When confronted with the mysterious new Moriarty, John should abandon his ostrich tendencies, learn the truth about TRF and acknowledge that Sherlock′s fake suicide was at least party intent on saving his life and the lives of Lestrade and Mrs. Hudson.
 
Since John′s marriage with Mary Morstan (who doesn′t legally exist) is null and void, he should marry Sherlock secretly.
 

I sense a lot of dissatisfaction with John. Don't we like John? I have to say I do. John when through 2 years of the worst kind of pain because Sherlock didn't trust him with sensitive information. Saying John isn't good at lying and he'd blow the whole thing is really petty in comparison to what he went through. And it's clear Sherlock didn't realize that from TEH. He thought it was a joke in some respects. Sigh, but that's okay. He's Sherlock.
Well, John still doesn't know everything about Mary because he supposedly destroyed the memory stick. There are few reasons not to respect John's decision, I guess. It's a fishy relationship. There's not a lot of feels between them, she spazed out in the last episode, and the way she was salvaged was weird. It leaves room for more to the story I think.

besleybean wrote:

2. What about John's beautiful speech to Mary in HLV?

 IMO that speech was everything but beautiful. It was stilted and did not include phrases like "I forgive you". (But then, Mary did not say she was sorry once.) And I still don't know what to make of John's face when embracing her after his speech. It definitely did not show happiness or relief.

Mouse wrote:

What I was commenting on was the over-analysis of a wedding photo taken before any of Mary's misdeeds came to light and, indeed, before Amanda Abbington herself knew the character's true background (they even kept her in the dark until it was time to film HLV). That definitely feels like a reach and smacks of "wishful johnlocking" IMHO.

I don't agree. The photos were taken before the actors knew about the chafacter developement. But it is really easy for a producer to say "We are shooting the wedding pics now, but please don't lean towards each other." Where's the problem?

What bothers me here, Mouse, is something that was written in several other treads before. Sorry for repeating it, but I'm still waiting for a satisfying response ...
What I mean is, "Johnlockers" come up with loads of character metas and screen shots and analysises of backgroung music and illuminations to proof their point, or at least to stress what they mean. They interpret the show with the same methods for text interpretation you learn at university.
I am still waiting for a non-Johnlocker to show me equally well researched material to proof their point.

I agree, Schmiezi. And reducing all the interpretative work it to eye sex is a bit sad in my opinion.

And also, I think wedding photos in general are the most unnatural pictures I see.
I hardly think it's suprising that ones in a TV show look a tad stilted.
Back on topic.
Obviously I don't know, but I'm assuming that May will die at some point...tho possibly not next series.
How and why she will die, I don't know.
Maybe it will turn out she wa still lying to John and maybe she is a plant...I don't know.
But from what we have seen in the show, declarations,tears, hugs etc...John and Mary appear to love each other.
Now John knows he's taken a hell of a lot on and he knows it isn't going to be easy.
But for whatever reason, he has decided to give that marriage a 2nd chance.
I do wonder why a whole episode was given to the Wedding...sign of it's significance?

Last edited by besleybean (July 19, 2014 4:33 pm)

Well, I am on holiday and so I do not have the chance to answer as often as I would wish. Just some random thoughts: 

Mouse - it is not just feel and think when talking about Johnlock. Let me make only one point. I know it has been said before but I am going to repeat it anyway. Mary never tells John that she loves him. She is his wife, they are supposed to have married out of love and she never once says she loves him, either directly or indirectly. Not once. True, she says she does not want to lose his love, that she is afraid he may stop loving her after he knows about her past. But this is about her, not about him and his wellbeing and happiness.

We have three characters and two of them tell each other that they love each other (one of them in front of a whole wedding party). The third one does not. And this is no subjective interpretation or wishful thinking but plain fact. Moffat, Gatiss, and Thompson chose not to make Mary say those words and to not to act like a woman who loves her husband (by not shooting his best friend, by saying sorry only once, by not lying to him repeatedly, maybe by not inviting her ex to her wedding just to fill up the pews in church). 

Last edited by SusiGo (July 19, 2014 6:24 pm)