BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » "The two people I love most..."

SherlocklivesinOH · March 7, 2014 7:50 pm

The Johnlock implications of this just began to sink in for me. It's not the fact that he really wants Sherlock to be a part of the wedding...of course straight people who are getting married can have friends whose participation in the wedding as best man, bridesmaids, or whatever, is very important.

It's not even the fact that John uses the word "love."

It's the way he lumps Mary and Sherlock together.

"up there with the two people I love most in the world." Not,"the woman I love and my best friend."

He's putting them in the same category, and making their roles in the wedding sound alike. Like he's marrying them both (or wants to.)

And Mary's having abilities much like Sherlock's, in some ways, reinforces this.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (March 7, 2014 9:26 pm)

SusiGo · March 7, 2014 8:07 pm

Yes to all that.

I could add the three of them standing together nearly all the time and John having to send him away for the wedding photo.

Mattlocked · March 7, 2014 8:16 pm

And Sherlock's answer during his speech: "....In short, the two people who love you most in all this world"
He's almost exactly quoting John.

Last edited by Mattlocked (March 7, 2014 8:16 pm)

QuiteExtraordinary · March 7, 2014 8:52 pm

Especially that Sherlock uses the word "love" at all is interesting. Or that John uses it to decribe his relationship with Sherlock. I always wonder if that could be called "progress" or if it's something that can only happen as long as John is married.

SherlocklivesinOH · March 7, 2014 9:47 pm

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
Especially that Sherlock uses the word "love" at all is interesting. Or that John uses it to decribe his relationship with Sherlock. I always wonder if that could be called "progress" or if it's something that can only happen as long as John is married.

You mean that they could be progressing from friends to lovers? Or that Sherlock is progressing in his ability to have relationships?

Honestly, as much as I loved Sherlock's pouring out his feelings for John, I wasn't sure I agreed with his premise: I'm not sure John is much better at relationships and emotions than Sherlock is! I think Sherlock may have saved John more than the other way around.

QuiteExtraordinary · March 7, 2014 10:18 pm

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
Especially that Sherlock uses the word "love" at all is interesting. Or that John uses it to decribe his relationship with Sherlock. I always wonder if that could be called "progress" or if it's something that can only happen as long as John is married.
You mean that they could be progressing from friends to lovers? Or that Sherlock is progressing in his ability to have relationships?

I meant both of them making progress in being more open about what they think of each other, or their emotions in general.

Mattlocked · March 7, 2014 11:08 pm

After having watched the wedding speech again (in a quite bad quality) on youtube, I found this comment; quite right:

curseyouinternets
"Okay but hold on a second. The first thing that comes to his mind after his speech when he sees everyone crying isn't some factual comment about tear ducts or emotions or making a mockery of anyone like usual. His first thought is "Oh no. I tried so hard not to do it wrong for John, what did I do?"......"

SusiGo · March 7, 2014 11:10 pm

I fear this will be the day every thread makes me cry.

Mattlocked · March 7, 2014 11:12 pm

And it's only 12 minutes old.

SusiGo · March 7, 2014 11:27 pm

No matter. Today nothing can save me from being sad. I shall go to bed now and read "Alone on the water" to cheer myself up.

Mattlocked · March 7, 2014 11:35 pm

Sounds like the perfect plan.

SherlocklivesinOH · March 7, 2014 11:42 pm

Sherlock does say he's against marriage in general...based on canon when he criticizes Watson for proposing to Mary OSTENSIBLY because "love is an emotional thing that gets in the way" or something like that.

And some people think it would be in character for Sherlock to oppose an institution he might see as, not slavery exactly, but people belonging to each other. (In stories written in the original canon-verse, but NOT by Doyle, Holmes often rants about classism and patriarchy; not quite sure what the basis is in Dyle for that.)

But I've always felt that if Sherlock Holmes (either in canon or BBC) could bind Watson to him in some legal way, such that the ladies would know Watson was off-limits, he (Holmes) would do that!

Which is actually why Sherlock at the wedding impressed me so much. When you think that there were so many ways he could have tried to come between John and Mary...especially once he found out, you know...but he facilitated them being together, yet in such a way that made it clear he loved John. He turned it into him marrying John, without ruining the wedding (which is what makes me feel like Mary agreed to Sherlock being part of the marriage.)

I also think that sometimes Sherlock, in his own social naivetee, doesn't realize the subtext of some of his own dialogue. I could imagine some homophobic guy making fun of Sherlock's wedding speech, and Sherlock not even understanding why.

Or a line like, "the blood pumping through your veins, just the two of us." WE hear the Johnlock in that; Sherlock might not.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (March 8, 2014 2:25 am)

tonnaree · March 8, 2014 3:53 am

I think it was an amazing thing for Sherlock to use the word LOVE. And I think John saying it first gave him courage.

Ultimately Sherlock's love was so selfless. He showed that nothing was more important to him than John's happiness. It may sound corny but it made me think of the old cliche "If you love something set it free.............."

*sobs some more*

mrshouse · March 8, 2014 7:50 am

"It's reeeeeeeeeal love, yes, it's reeeeeeeeeeal, yes, it's reeeeeeal love"
The Beatles
*sobbing uncontrollably and wanting a group hug for comfort*
sniff...

tonnaree · March 8, 2014 12:29 pm

Will I do for a start? *hugs mrshouse*

mrshouse · March 8, 2014 8:53 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Will I do for a start? *hugs mrshouse*

that'll do fine for starters, thanks so much for some comfort, tonnaree😊😊😊

eurydike · April 1, 2014 2:05 pm

Even I got a little emotional when I saw this episode and Sherlock's speech for the first time. In fact, I felt very sorry for him during a large part of the ceremony because for most people present he might have been an object of ridicule or even annoyance (well, his ways are not easy to comprehend, right?). When he finally got his act together and talked straight from his heart, things started to look differently. And if I were prone to cry in front of the TV, I would have shed some tears. Okay, I did. Deep within me. And maybe next time I see TSOT, there will be no resistance.

I'm still very new to this fandom and I might not have understood how touching that bit truly was, but next time I might need hugs too.

KeepersPrice · April 1, 2014 11:53 pm

I cried when he was playing his waltz on the violin while John and Mary danced. It still gets me every time.

SusiGo · April 2, 2014 7:11 am

eurydike wrote:
I'm still very new to this fandom and I might not have understood how touching that bit truly was, but next time I might need hugs too.

I think it gets more touching if you see it in context of the whole show. Sherlock has always been adverse to showing sentiment, has ridiculed romance and mocked John for writing romantic mails to his girlfriends.
So to see him in TSoT as a whole is quite touching - planning the perfect wedding, busying himself with trivial things like napkin folding, and, most of all, holding a speech about sentiment in front of a whole wedding party and laying bare his feelings, is quite a big step for him. One of the most touching moments for me is him talking at length about an unsolved case (which must seem like a weakness to him) while he got angry with John earlier on for blogging about unsolved cases. And do not get me started on the dance-floor scene.

This Is The Phantom Lady · April 2, 2014 7:36 am

SusiGo wrote:
eurydike wrote:
I'm still very new to this fandom and I might not have understood how touching that bit truly was, but next time I might need hugs too.
I think it gets more touching if you see it in context of the whole show. Sherlock has always been adverse to showing sentiment, has ridiculed romance and mocked John for writing romantic mails to his girlfriends.
So to see him in TSoT as a whole is quite touching - planning the perfect wedding, busying himself with trivial things like napkin folding, and, most of all, holding a speech about sentiment in front of a whole wedding party and laying bare his feelings, is quite a big step for him. One of the most touching moments for me is him talking at length about an unsolved case (which must seem like a weakness to him) while he got angry with John earlier on for blogging about unsolved cases. And do not get me started on the dance-floor scene.

^I'm just going to second this

And now I need a hug...