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May 12, 2014 7:20 am  #521


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

That's so true. It really is impossible to imagine anyone else playing Sherlock and John, from all we know about them now. It almost seems ridiculous to think that any other pairing could have had such a chemistry.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 7:32 am  #522


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

This show is inseparable connected with Benedict and Martin. If one of them would leave, "Sherlock" is over.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

May 12, 2014 7:36 am  #523


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

About that scene - I had the same idea as in the tumblr comment. We only have Mary's word regarding John's attachment to Sholto. And she is a liar. So I wondered if here she is not subtly playing with Sherlock's mind. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 7:38 am  #524


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

I always thought so, Susi, at least to a certain extent. Maybe she's just making fun of Sherlock and doesn't even have any bad intentions. But when she says that John never shuts up about Sholto... come on, that's absurd, don't you think...?


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 7:42 am  #525


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Exactly. He likes and respects Sholto, of this I am sure. The rest is made-up, I suppose. I think during the wedding planning Mary noticed Sherlock's interest when Sholto was mentioned and seized the opportunity at the wedding to upset Sherlock. For me the most interesting thing is that in her remark she equals herself and Sherlock in relation to John (neither of us were the first).

Last edited by SusiGo (May 12, 2014 7:42 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 7:49 am  #526


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

And those two things combined are actually pretty mean, when you think about it. John always talks about Sholto (so it seems he cares about him more than he cares about Sherlock), and apart from the fact that neither Sherlock nor Mary were the first, it's now Mary who gets John in the end...


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 7:51 am  #527


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Yes. I know we have been over that more than once but if you take a close look at episode 1 and 2 you get some hints about Mary. She hurts Sherlock (and John) in all sorts of ways. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 7:53 am  #528


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

SolarSystem wrote:

I always thought so, Susi, at least to a certain extent. Maybe she's just making fun of Sherlock and doesn't even have any bad intentions. But when she says that John never shuts up about Sholto... come on, that's absurd, don't you think...?

I think she meant that John talks a lot about Sholto just during the preparations for the wedding. Because he really wishs Sholto to take part.
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:00 am  #529


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

But Sherlock was involved in the whole wedding planning, much more than John. I got the impression from Mary's words that John has always been talking about Sholto to her.
This is just a feeling but for me this is Mary telling Sherlock: He did not share everything with you. There are things about him you do not know. There are people that matter he has never told you about. 
Btw - this behaviour of her is reflected in HLV when she tells John pointedly that there are people who do not know Sherlock Holmes. IMO It is a subtle sting.

Last edited by SusiGo (May 12, 2014 8:00 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 8:20 am  #530


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

I agree, Susi.
And btw, in my head canon it's not Sholto John never shuts up about, but Sherlock. I seriously doubt that John talks about Sholto at all, Mary is just making this up. But there is some truth in her words... it's just that it's not Sholto, it's Sherlock. This would make total sense in regards to HLV and what you just mentioned, Susi. John misses Sherlock after only four weeks of marriage, so much so that Mary seems to be a bit pissed off with him about it.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:34 am  #531


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Excellent idea, Solar. I think this is very true and can only be understood in the context of all episodes. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 8:35 am  #532


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

SusiGo wrote:

But Sherlock was involved in the whole wedding planning, much more than John. I got the impression from Mary's words that John has always been talking about Sholto to her.

I think that they also spent time alone, without Sherlock. Then John could have talked about Sholto to Mary. Is this so unimaginable?
 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:40 am  #533


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

It is possible and most of this is speculation. It is just that the Sholto scene at the wedding leaves a bad taste im my mouth where Mary is concerned. And we get no other explanation why Mary is suddenly so fed up with Sherlock at the beginning of HLV.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 8:47 am  #534


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Doesn't Mary leave a bad taste in your mouth anyway?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:48 am  #535


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Once again, I have to agree with Susi. The way in which she says "He never shuts up about him" alone sounds so... wrong to me... Yes, it's all speculation, but if you put the pieces together, some scenarios appear more likely than others.
Apart from all that, John never talked to Sherlock about Sholto in S1 and S2. Now of course one could argue that he just had no reason to talk about him and miss him because he had Sherlock there in his life. But I would assume that after Sherlock was gone, John would have had more reason to talk about Sherlock than to talk about Sholto all the time.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:49 am  #536


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

gently69 wrote:

Doesn't Mary leave a bad taste in your mouth anyway?

So she doesn't leave a bad taste in yours...?
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:51 am  #537


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Not with everything she does.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

May 12, 2014 8:58 am  #538


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

But we haven't been talking about 'everything', we have been talking about a specific scene.
But okay, I admit that I can't really look at one specific scene with her without taking into account everything else that we've come to know about her once we've reached the end of HLV.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

May 12, 2014 9:00 am  #539


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

I think we can agree that Sherlock gives Sholto quite an unusual amount of attention. He asks who he is during the wedding planning which is quite logical. Then he starts to research him on the internet but closes the tab when John enters the room. He tries to "chat" with John about him. At the wedding he approaches Mary and comments on Sholto in a what? sarcastic? ironic? way. I think it is then that Mary realises he is in some way jealous of Sholto and decides to rub it in. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

May 12, 2014 9:08 am  #540


Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)

Also speculations of course.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ten:" I'm burning up a sun just to say goodbye."

Sherlock: "I heard you.”

"Temptation coursing through our veins " 
(Tony Hadley)

 
 

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