BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.
- Draconia
- Lestrade's Aide
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 29, 2014
- Posts: 124
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
*waves to her happy day* bye bye....you have been short but all the good things come to an end...
I may be on the side of the angels, but don't think for one second, that I am one of them...
S.H
- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- From: Germany
- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Yes, yes, but - so I have learned in this very thread just recently - all of this takes place before the scene on the dance floor. And then John knows. Right? 
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
This will haunt me the rest of the day.
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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- nakahara
- Threatened Knighthood
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- Registered: February 22, 2014
- Posts: 11,979
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
SolarSystem wrote:
Yes, yes, but - so I have learned in this very thread just recently - all of this takes place before the scene on the dance floor. And then John knows. Right?
I really believe John knows then. The way he moves and looks at Sherlock just screams it.
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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?
- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- From: Germany
- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
So then let's forget about what John said before that. What counts is that he finally comes to realize that Sherlock is the one he doesn't just care about, but the one he loves.
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- nakahara
- Threatened Knighthood
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- Registered: February 22, 2014
- Posts: 11,979
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
It was a miscomprehension of Sherlock´s side anyway. 
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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
And think of John's face on the tarmac when the plane is turning around.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- mrshouse
- Stayin' Alive
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- Registered: January 16, 2014
- Posts: 3,802
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Girls, I'm not just saying this because it would make me sad but actually this is not convincing: the author argues that love and care would be redundant which, at least for me, are two completely different matters, so loving and caring is not just one applying to one exclusively and leaving out the other. Both applies to both as I see it. 
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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Brilliant! You saved my day, mrshouse. 
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- From: Germany
- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
I suppose the author would now argue that when you love someone you also care for him/her, whereas when you care for someone you aren't necessarily in love with him/her - which again would bring us to the question whether or not 'to love someone' and 'to be in love with someone' are two different things.
Anyway... I love your reasoning, mrshouse, and have decided to agree with it.
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- mrshouse
- Stayin' Alive
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- Registered: January 16, 2014
- Posts: 3,802
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
But but but, Solar, the prelude us " The two people....". Not " the one I love and care and the one I only care about..." 
------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
I just translated the sentence into German and used another word instead of care about for the sake of clarity. "Ich möchte mit den beiden Menschen dort stehen, die ich auf der Welt am meisten liebe und schätze." On reading this, I would never suppose that one verb refers only to one person but that both refer to both people.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- mrshouse
- Stayin' Alive
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- Registered: January 16, 2014
- Posts: 3,802
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Honestly, I love detecting little details after all the long time but this neat separation never occurred to me, neither in English nor in German. And I'm not a stubborn Johnlocker who closes his eyes at stuff that does not fit with my personal opinion. I just find the stuff supporting the johnlock view much more convincing. Aaaahhhh, good science...
------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- From: Germany
- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Well, I can follow the author's argumentation, at the same time this distinction never would have occured to me, either. I always understood it in the way that John doesn't really make a distinction between Sherlock and Mary here - just as he doesn't make a distinction when he's talking to Sherlock while sitting on the bench. He loves both of them and he cares about both of them.
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
I agree, especially as he says "two people" instead of Mary and you. This comes only at the end of the sentence. When talking about his feelings he makes no distinction between them.
The scene on the bench is a bit different. And it is very conspicuous that Sherlock gets up and leaves while John is talking about Mary changing his life. I am qute sure he would have stayed if John had said: "See, the thing about Mary and you – you both have completely turned my life around; changed everything."
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- tonnaree
- The "B" is SILENT! (Mod)
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- From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
- Registered: May 31, 2013
- Posts: 9,270
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
No one wants to sit and listen to their crush talk about the person they're in love with.
Been there done that.
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Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.
Honorary German
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
-Vaclav Havel
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong." Melissa Ethridge
I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- From: Germany
- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
But in this case Sherlock should have stuck around just a few seconds longer...
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
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- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
Indeed. But then John has said that they are not a couple, that he is not gay, that Sherlock is a machine, etc. Maybe he just did not want to hear him talking about Mary.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter- SolarSystem
- Threatened Knighthood
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- Registered: July 30, 2013
- Posts: 10,650
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
...and because emotions are involved on his part, Sherlock seems to be a bit not good at deducing what John is about to say about him...
___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?
"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
Offline
- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: The comprehensive Johnlock guide (Johnlockers only)
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- •
Thread Starter