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July 10, 2014 6:01 pm  #21

Re: "Till you beg for mercy, twice..."

No desires?  I think I'd find it perfectly possible to watch the episode and make a case for asexual Sherlock - what we're seeing doesn't have to be sexual desire.   They really do seem to have covered all bases


July 10, 2014 7:42 pm  #22

Re: "Till you beg for mercy, twice..."

Sherlock desires John.

*runs back to corner giggling*

Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.

August 3, 2014 8:00 am  #23

Re: "Till you beg for mercy, twice..."

And as for Irene Adler?  Well, you say he was beaten by her, but do you know what they got up to in Islamabad? Because I do.  There was no beating. It was all very loving.

So according to Benedict, no beating and no begging for mercy.   But he does say in the same interview that he makes up backstory. 

Also, this was part of a response to a question about the portrayal of women in Sherlock: "Do you find there is anything problematic with how woman are written on Sherlock. Molly as the unrequited love, Mrs Hudson as the archetype mother and Irene Adler as the only person who bested Sherlock, fell in love with him and was beaten by Sherlock."  So Benedict's response may be more about defending the portrayal of women, than about his view of the relationship between the characters.  I haven't heard the audio of this part (has anyone, or was anyone there?).  This might have been a jokey answer.  In the transcript he seems to mishear; the audience member's concern is that Irene is shown as being beaten by Sherlock (rather than beating him, as she did in the book).

Loving, rather than passionate and exotic?  I suppose I can buy it (even if I'd be a little disappointed).  There is Irene's suggestion of "dinner", which has no kinky connotations ... but that's about the only suggestion that doesn't have kinky connotations.   She does have two personas with Sherlock (hair up, hair down, to be brief
), and both seem to intrigue him. I still think there's lots of ambiguity there, and will continue to see what I want to see


August 31, 2014 1:28 am  #24

Re: "Till you beg for mercy, twice..."

New poster! Hi!

I believe that Irene likes Sherlock's mind. She is a lesbian. She says so herself. She's not interested in Sherlock sexually, IMO. She likes the game and finds him very intriguing.

Also, I'd like to chime in and say a few things about the role of dominatrix. The term BDSM could mean to include bondage and sado/masochism. We certainly see Irene wield a whip and a riding crop along with the way she slaps Sherlock after administering the injection. It could also mean dominance and submission <I>without<\i> bondage or pain of any kind. There is also the idea of DRSP: dominant, submissive role play. This might be more of what she provides to other clients. The illusion of danger in a carefully controlled environment. There doesn't have to be bondage or pain of any kind.

In either case, one of the posters above is entirely correct. The submissive has all of the control over these situations. It is the submissive who willingly secedes power to the dominant. The dominant is then beholden to the submissive to take care of him/her in every way--not just sexually. The dom is the protector of all aspects of the submissive. The dom is the servant serving for the pleasure of the submissive. But at the same time, the submissive is freed from the burden of making decisions. The sub only has to obey and he/she will be seen to. Then there is always the safe word or other out by which the submissive can opt out. If there is no out option, then the relationship ceases to be truly about DsRP and becomes abusive and certainly not a game.

Irene is in a difficult position between Moriarty and Mycroft. She's trying to get out of the situation by leveraging Sherlock to the best of her abilities. But she has trouble figuring him out. She says several times that she 'knows what he likes' about someone who helps her or gives her information. Does she know what Sherlock likes? She thought he liked her. But Sherlock really likes to be right (he will outlive god trying to have the last word). I think he doesn't answer her texts because he's not the least bit interested in interacting with her socially. If there's a crime or a puzzle, fine. But otherwise, eh.

So why does he keep the text sound? Well, it bothers John, doesn't it?

I will come absolutely clean as a Johnlocker. But that doesn't mean that I don't find his interactions with Irene interesting.


August 31, 2014 9:31 am  #25

Re: "Till you beg for mercy, twice..."

I think that whatever she says about her sexuality, she's attracted to him.   That's how he wins the game, isn't it?  She shows signs of arousal when she's in a sexually charged situation with him (talking to him about sex).   Whatever Sherlock feels for her, I don't think there's any doubt that she desires him.  I think even the code showed that.  It's not something clever, it's not about finding him interesting.  It's all about falling for him. 

Personally, I think it's a two-way attraction.  Sherlock looks so hurt when he exposes her that it seems to me that he's repressing exactly the same feelings for her.   That's partly why he knows.   They know what each other like.  (That's the point when he guesses the code, when Irene says Moriarty is her kind of man ... and Sherlock knows that he's her kind of man).  They reflect each other in various ways (clothes, hair, etc.).

I did say that the sub is in control in a business arrangement (like Irene and her clients).  But I think that in a personal situation in a relationship, it's different.   It's mutual.  Sherlock and Irene have learned to read each other, and that's the really important thing. I think they'd do OK, were they to indulge  

There's the little scene where Irene "beats" Sherlock to get the phone back.  She's reluctant to hit him outside a sexual situation - she seems frustrated that he won't give the phone back and that she has to do it.  Running the riding crop over his face was a bit cheeky and self-indulgent, I admit, but it wasn't something that was actually causing him pain or harming him.  I don't think she'd be an abusive top. 


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