tobeornot221b, that's a wonderful observation, and I completely agree with you. It's one of the reasons, why I enjoy the show so much.If Sherlock's and John's relationship should ever take a serious gay turn in the future (I don't think it will, because the creators of the show want to keep everything subtly open), most heterosexual fans of the show would be absolutely fine with it. That's quite an achievement. The CBS show on the other hand will never be able to reach out to those stars.

Last edited by sherlocked (April 11, 2012 3:47 pm)

tobeornot221b,   nice comments,  and it points out  further ways
that this series is so well done,  even with subtleties.   I like your quote:

" in Soo Lin Yao’s words: "Sometimes you have to look hard at something to see its value." "

Toleration,  and then actually seeing worth in something if you observe
below the surface..  Embracing perceived shortcomings and differences
as variations only, and becoming richer for it.

Hmm, did that mean we've now looked below the surface of "The Blind
Banker"  and have found some value? 

Yay! Sherlock promotes tolerance and understanding of everyone....I like that idea. Good observation - you saw and then deduced. 

tobeornot221b wrote:

Example one: The "gay" thing – everything’s fine with it! When Sherlock comes to know that John’s sister is a Lesbian he doesn’t even bat an eyelid; Mrs Hudson – a representative of the older generation – ensures John not to worry because "there are all sorts round here – Mrs Turner next door’s got married ones." Being gay, straight, bi- or asexual or even enjoying recreational scolding (if you are prepared to pay for it): Nothing is judged to be uncommon or condemnable.

Do you really think that Mrs Hudson lowering her voice to speak in a soft voice and calling a couple "married ones" is showing acceptance of gayness? I find it typical behaviour for many people that age & younger. "Married ones"? She may as well be referring to parrots or cats or dogs. I don't find that showing much 'acceptance' but rather acknowledging the existence of gay people and possibly their right to be members of society. But to be truly 'accepting' of anyone would mean you felt no need to lower your voice when speaking of them in public or in private. Her reference to the couple WAS in private so I doubt she would speak of them at all in public.
As for Sherlock, he would understand homosexuality as being a natural part of the Animal Kingdom; it happens just as red hair happens; just as freckles happen; just as left handedness happens. He certainly would never consider judging anyone on any of their traits so him 'not batting an eyelid' over a mere fact is a non-event.

In reality, I don't believe the show makes any comment on acceptance/non acceptance of anyone's lifestyle whatsoever. It doesn't need to. It's not relevant to the show. The most we get are funny 'digs' about whether Sherlock & John are gay which happens is many societies these days anyway. But it certainly doesn't make any social commentary on the subject.

Example two: People who exhibit shortcomings in their social behaviour like Sherlock surely cannot be helped by being told "Piss off!". It’s quite promising to see how friendship, understanding and patience can produce positive results, that progress is possible and that in the end it is all worthwhile. Or to say it in Soo Lin Yao’s words: "Sometimes you have to look hard at something to see its value."
What, if John had given up and abandoned Sherlock because of the latter’s compromising behaviour towards John and almost the whole world? Would we have been able to witness one of the most wonderful friendships ever? (Ok - I should know better: it’s only fictional and literature and a TV show, but…!)

What do you think?

It's a dysfunctional friendship but one that works. Lots of people have similar. But you could never say each of them would trust the other 100% on absolutely any matter. If anything it shows how very opposite people can 'work together' for a common goal but from very different perspectives.

I really don't see this show as a 'feel good' moment in human behaviour & interaction. As far as that area is concerned, to me it highlights a lot of human faults. Certainly not a show to base any meaningful 'life lessons' from. I think Moftiss, Cumberbatch & Freeman could turn collectively quite pale if they thought that was happening,


JMHO

tobeornot221b, Martin Freeman agrees with your thoughts about the show. I saw an interview, where he expressed many of the same thoughts and said sommething like , 'the beauty is, that people are drawn in and don't even notice, because the show is not about political correctness'. If I find the link again, I will post it.

But I wanted mung beans

Wholocked wrote:

But I wanted mung beans

No more mung beans till you eat your brussel sprouts!!

In my opinion, "the gay thing" is just used as some sort of comic relief sometimes. I'm with kazza about Mrs. Hudson's words... and the rest of the time is something that Sherlock just ignores and John gets angry about. I think it works as something funny sometimes, but if they keep going that way it may end up beeing a bit tiring. And I really don't like the idea of Sherlock and John becoming a gay couple. I have absolutely nothing against gay couples (a lot of my friends are), it's just it would not work for me. I think his friendship is marvellous as it is, no need to watch them kissing each other or whatever. Apparently, some people can't accept that there are real friendships, really loving ones, without the need of sex between the two friends.

On the other hand, I do agree that there's more to the show, as tobeornot221b said; John's patience with Sherlock, Mrs. Hudson unconditional love for him or Lestrade's trust in him are a real help for Sherlock to develop some kind of "human side". There really are people in this world as socially unable as his is (maybe not as smart and observant and deductive) and it's kind of heartwarming to see how people can help someone like him. He sometimes looks so helpless and so needed of someone to tell him what's right or wrong... I even feel sometimes that he needs a lot of protection. And he gets it. And that makes him at the end a better man (paraphrasing Lestrade's words).

So, yes, for me there are things beyond the adventures, the deductions, the rudeness and the gay thing. It's friendship, a really beautiful kind of friendship, where people can see beyond the outside looks and the bad manners and love a different, certainly damaged person in their own way.

Ah well, if Freeman says it is, it must be true.

I'll have to re-watch the whole lot now, I obviously missed the most important parts.

Well, I don't agree with adorable Martin. I don't think it's the gayest show ever... why? Because those are two men that love each other in a non sexual way? Then I must be the gayest woman ever... I love my female friends to death, though I would never have sex with any of them.

I hope it never happens in the show, really. As I said, it wouldn't work for me. But neither would work Sherlock with Molly or even Sherlock with Irene.