Swanpride wrote:

The point is that the narrative makes a point of mentioning that it is not unusual that people come to Mary for help. and in HLV it is a similiar situation, in this case John isn't even asked for his help (in fact, when he first asks were the drug den is, he gets a vague answer and has to specify that he needs the adress), Kate is clearly there for Mary's support first and foremost. Never mind that Mary is obviously already informed about the circumstances (showing that they talked earlier about her problems), while John isn't even sure if the druggie is her husband or son (which is naturally a nod to canon, too, but also illustrates that he isn't interested in his neighbors problems at all until he gets the opportunity to storm a drug den). Nevermind that Kate goes past John to Mary and they are on the sofa together with Mary comforting Kate while John makes coffee.

You are missing one detail from the original story:

It was not the first time that she had spoken to us of her husband's trouble, to me as a doctor, to my wife as an old friend and school companion.

The original Mary was Kate´s school companion, they had known each other for a long time. This is not a case with Kate in the BBC verse, where Kate is obviously just a neighbour. And while in the original story Mary confronts the Kate and John jumps to the rescue:

But what was she to do? How could she, a young and timid woman, make her way into such a place and pluck her husband out from among the ruffians who surrounded him?     There was the case, and of course there was but one way out of it. Might I not escort her to this place? And then, as a second thought, why should she come at all? I was Isa Whitney's medical adviser, and as such I had influence over him. I could manage it better if I were alone. I promised her on my word that I would send him home in a cab within two hours if he were indeed at the address which she had given me. And so in ten minutes I had left my armchair and cheery sitting-room behind me, and was speeding eastward in a hansom on a strange errand, as it seemed to me at the time, though the future only could show how strange it was to be.

this is how Mary reacts in BBC-verse:

JOHN: Where is he?
KATE: It’s a house. It’s a dump. I mean, it’s practically falling down.
JOHN: No, the address.
(Mary turns and looks at him.)
JOHN: Where, exactly?
Shortly afterwards John is dressed and walking down the path outside the house and heading towards their car parked at the kerb. Mary, still in her pyjamas and dressing gown, is following him.
MARY: Seriously?
JOHN (turning back to her): Why not? She’s not going to the police. Someone’s got to get him.
MARY (stopping at the gate as John continues on): Why you?
JOHN: I’m being neighbourly.
MARY: Since when?
JOHN (chuckling briefly): Since now. Since this exact minute.
MARY: Why are you being so ...?
(She twirls her hands expressively.)
JOHN (stopping at the driver’s door and turning back to her): What?
MARY: I dunno. What’s the matter with you?
JOHN (loudly): There is nothing the matter with me. (Quickly, less forcefully) Imagine I said that without shouting.
MARY: I’m trying.
(She walks briskly towards the passenger side of the car.)
JOHN: No, you can’t come. You’re pregnant.
MARY: You can’t go. I’m pregnant.

John jumps to the rescue exactly as in the original story. Mary, on the other hand, not only doesn´t want John to go, but she is clearly befuddled by the idea that he actually wants to help Kate.

Last edited by nakahara (January 7, 2015 8:47 am)

When strawmen like "Saint Mary" and the likes are used, I see no reason going on with the debate. It's clear that it will be an endless circle that won't go anywhere.

Not offensive, just a straw man that is not constructive for the debate. 

Well, debating it further would certainly be off topic. I would just prefer if answers and counter-arguments were given to what was actually written and not some exaggerated version of it.

Then again, I shouldn't even have mentioned it seeing as it wasn't even directed towards me. It's just that the tone on this board has been remarkably civil and factual no matter if we disagree. So it just stands out when I see things like this used in a debate. 

Anyway, really off topic, so this will be my last post on the matter.

Swanpride wrote:

I don't think that Mary is befuddled that someone would want to help Kate, but that John is suddenly showing an interest, and then she realizes that he itches for some danger and doesn't want him on his own. And really, why should she? With her abilities, there is no reason to no wait in the car at the very least. (And I am not in the slightest surprised that she has no interest to let some strange druggie into her car before John tells her that it is okay).

Her question "why you?" and Amanda Abbington´s acting in that scene indicated to me that she doesn´t want John to go at all. But that´s in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

nakahara wrote:

Isn´t this why Mary fell in love with John in the first place?

It is. Hence the "kinda sexy" comment, which I love.
 

But he didn't know he was in the drug den?

I think it does fit in many aspects as a quick bonding with the main protagonists, an obscure past, an outsmarting of main characters.

Swanpride wrote:

I don't think that Mary is befuddled that someone would want to help Kate, but that John is suddenly showing an interest, and then she realizes that he itches for some danger and doesn't want him on his own. And really, why should she? With her abilities, there is no reason to no wait in the car at the very least. (And I am not in the slightest surprised that she has no interest to let some strange druggie into her car before John tells her that it is okay).

Yes, they said that Mary is like John in that she can live six months without danger and excitement, but not seven. She´s drawn to these kind of things, that´s just who she is and so it´s no surprise at all she wants to come. So the problem I´m having with not only this scene but with many others in which Mary is involved (or involves herself) is not really that I think it´s a sign ofher bad character - I see her quite neutral (if a bit annoying) in these instances. It is more that I have a problem with the show turning into an ensemble-show with a group of genius-and/or-danger-addicted people at its center. I obviously can´t blame Mary for that (for many other things, but not for that..).. but I still dislike her as a symptom of these changes. I wish I did not, as I think it became clear in interviews that TPTB intend to take the show further in the direction of "a growing family".. so everyone that enjoys the new direction is certainly in advantage! Just for me this "you and me against the rest of the world" with a few supporting "normal" characters like we had in S1 and 2 was so satisfying that I can´t help but resent the changes (and, I repeat, I´m not a Johnlocker, so it has nothing to do with Mary getting in the way of my favourite ship.. unless you count "Sherlock and solitude, only shared with his loyal and trusted friend John Watson" as a ship - then she indeed comes in the way of that ^^).

Last edited by Zatoichi (January 7, 2015 10:47 am)

Thank you, zatoichi. From the bottom of my heart.