BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Schmiezi · January 5, 2015 8:58 pm

besleybean wrote:
Wedding stuff?

Nope.

besleybean · January 5, 2015 8:58 pm

I just think it's funny!

SusiGo · January 5, 2015 9:00 pm

And others do not.

besleybean · January 5, 2015 9:04 pm

Sherlock is one of the funniest shows I know.

SusiGo · January 5, 2015 9:06 pm

True, there is a lot of humour in it. In many scenes. And Sherlock folding napkins is cute and a bit funny. I was just talking about Mary's manipulations which I do not find funny. Reminds me a bit of Irene knowing to to play the Holmes boys.

besleybean · January 5, 2015 9:09 pm

I do agree with you...but I think eventually Irene warms to Sherlock.
I think Mary recognises the boys friendship, she genuinely likes Sherlock and wants to keep them together.

Schmiezi · January 6, 2015 6:10 am

But if Mary would die the heroical death of a goodie, and then sometime later Johnlock would happen, would you continue watching the show, Swanpride?

mrshouse · January 6, 2015 8:28 am

Just out of curiosity: does anybody ship Holmes and Watson as portrayed by Downey and Law? Because those two are hot, too, but I would never ship them as romantically linked.

Schmiezi · January 6, 2015 8:28 am

I see.

I was just asking because I have heard the idea that Johnlockers dislike Mary because of Johnlock once too often. I was wondering if it also worked the other way round, if people love Mary bevause they dislike Johnlock.

SolarSystem · January 6, 2015 8:32 am

mrshouse wrote:
Just out of curiosity: does anybody ship Holmes and Watson as portrayed by Downey and Law? Because those two are hot, too, but I would never ship them as romantically linked.

I love them, too, but shipping them romantically never crossed my mind... until recently, when I watched the two movies again. But I'll admit that this probably has a lot to do with me shipping 'our' Sherlock and John. Suddenly I saw a lot going on between RJD and Law, too.

Zatoichi · January 6, 2015 8:35 am

besleybean wrote:
Sherlock is one of the funniest shows I know.

I don´t know, I liked the humour better in the first two seasons.. S3 laughs too much about Sherlock for my liking. Haha, how he gets beaten around by John; haha, the way he destroys Lestrade´s most important case by blowing the best-man-speech out of proportion; haha how gullible he is, Mary knows how to play her boys; haha how he´ll suck at delivering a speech in front of real people, haha him reading fluffy wedding telegrams *making tortured-owl-sounds*, haha his face when John calls him a drama-queen.. maybe I just don´t get the "taking the piss"-thing as sign for love and affection..? For me it felt as if S3 ridicules Sherlock more than it appreciates him, but that might be just me/ a cultural thing..?

I´m also one of the people who perceived the napkin-scene as patronizing.. for me when you´re concerned about a friend, between grown-ups it´d be enough to just say "listen, don´t you think you worried enough about that for now? You look like you could use a break and some fresh air.." You only use psychological tricks and fake phone-calls with children or stupid/childish people who won´t get your reasons, and that´s how it feels to me.. oh the boys, bless their lil hearts, they get so over-involved in the wedding-details they need their mum to distract them away from it. Add to it Mary´s endeared "gosh, you don´t know anything about human nature, do you?" and Sherlock declaring how much Mary and John parenting him gave them exp-points for their new baby, and you get a carer-dependant-dynamic between them I find really yucky.
That´s actually the only good thing that came out of the shoot for me, that Sherlock does not defer to her as "carer" or even mother figure anymore..

Last edited by Zatoichi (January 6, 2015 8:39 am)

mrshouse · January 6, 2015 8:50 am

Zatoichi, you summarize yet again very eloquently how I feel, too. Thank you.

besleybean · January 6, 2015 8:58 am

I have to say,and maybe this is the wrong place for it(as it's not specifically about Mary), I think this is an interesting point...the use of humour in the show.
I find humour a very personal thing.
I certainly know what other people find funny I don't...and vice versa.
I know somtimes too the only thing that has allowed me to accept a Sherlock scene...is the humour.
Listening to the commentaries, the team are often in hysterics...but I'm not entirely certain they are laughing for the same reason I am!

mrshouse · January 6, 2015 9:07 am

You're quite right, it is a very personal thing. And yet again an example that you cannot take things only as meant by the artists. I don't feel this us the wrong place to address this topic, because, as very nicely mentioned by zatoichi, the use of humour in this season differed a bit from S1&2 and it were often scenes involving Mary and the new threesome.

SusiGo · January 6, 2015 9:08 am

Zatoichi wrote:
besleybean wrote:
Sherlock is one of the funniest shows I know.
I don´t know, I liked the humour better in the first two seasons.. S3 laughs too much about Sherlock for my liking. Haha, how he gets beaten around by John; haha, the way he destroys Lestrade´s most important case by blowing the best-man-speech out of proportion; haha how gullible he is, Mary knows how to play her boys; haha how he´ll suck at delivering a speech in front of real people, haha him reading fluffy wedding telegrams *making tortured-owl-sounds*, haha his face when John calls him a drama-queen.. maybe I just don´t get the "taking the piss"-thing as sign for love and affection..? For me it felt as if S3 ridicules Sherlock more than it appreciates him, but that might be just me/ a cultural thing..?

I´m also one of the people who perceived the napkin-scene as patronizing.. for me when you´re concerned about a friend, between grown-ups it´d be enough to just say "listen, don´t you think you worried enough about that for now? You look like you could use a break and some fresh air.." You only use psychological tricks and fake phone-calls with children or stupid/childish people who won´t get your reasons, and that´s how it feels to me.. oh the boys, bless their lil hearts, they get so over-involved in the wedding-details they need their mum to distract them away from it. Add to it Mary´s endeared "gosh, you don´t know anything about human nature, do you?" and Sherlock declaring how much Mary and John parenting him gave them exp-points for their new baby, and you get a carer-dependant-dynamic between them I find really yucky.
That´s actually the only good thing that came out of the shoot for me, that Sherlock does not defer to her as "carer" or even mother figure anymore..

Yes, I fully agree, Zatoichi. This is why I also have problems with the "drama queen" scene. I know it is meant to be funny but I somehow do not feel at ease with it. Of course Sherlock loves his drama but in the end he is the one who saves Sholto's life, and he never gets as much as a thank you for it (although before he went on and on about John saving lives. It is a fact that Sherlock has saved people's live over and over in the show). Mary knew the room number but it was Sherlock who deduced the killer's method and, even more important, persuaded Sholto in an emotional approach to open the door.
I know very well that they could not keep John's fervent adoration forever but I would have preferred a bit more respect for Sherlock's abilities and a little less patronising and jokes at his cost.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 6, 2015 9:09 am)

besleybean · January 6, 2015 9:09 am

I accept that, of course.
But for me: it was Sherlock and Irene, John hitting Sherlock, but yes...the WHOLE of the wedding.(You may have gathered I hate weddings and everything about them!)
Yes Susi, that drama queen thing was a tad odd...
I do wonder if the team dealt with an awful lot of stuff, in that episode...using humour,

Last edited by besleybean (January 6, 2015 9:12 am)

SusiGo · January 6, 2015 9:10 am

It is not that I hate weddings and I do not hate this episode at all. But I still feel that Sherlock has been treated unfairly for large parts of series 3.

besleybean · January 6, 2015 9:14 am

For me, Sherlock's best man's speech will remain the only best man's speech worth hearing!
Oh and I hate stag nights...but this was very funny.

Schmiezi · January 6, 2015 9:17 am

For me, TSoT is the saddest episode there is (so far), despite the humour (or attempt at such). Sherlock leaving the wedding early ...

*sob*

Liberty · January 6, 2015 9:21 am

No, it's not just you, Zatoichi.   I don't like it either - it's almost degrading, and I feel it doesn't fit with Sherlock's character (the bit about Sherlock being parented is particularly cringeworthy). But I suppose I have to accept that the writers see it differently.   I sometimes prefer to think that these things didn't really happen .

I only watched the series recently, so I didn't have the chance to "like" Mary (as I knew she was going to shoot Sherlock, although not the details) before the revelation.    I'm sure that influences me a bit.

There's something unrealistic about the way Sherlock bonds with Mary, I think. It's fine that he likes her, and I get that he accepts her so easily because she's an extension of John. But it goes too far, I think - the way he makes them a threesome, the way he actually says vows FOR Mary, when he has his own relationship with John, etc. I know the writers think that he would love to take over the details of organising a wedding - well, my version of Sherlock wouldn't .   (And in fact, Doyle's Sherlock is fairly dismissive of it, to the point of being bitter - not gleefully throwing himself into stationery and napkins!)    And I find it difficult to think that he wouldn't pick up on the clues about Mary, when he screens all her guests - why not screen her? (Although he doesn't screen John's - why is he protecting Mary and not John?). It would be like Sherlock to surreptitiously look into her background.

Watching it knowing what Mary was going to do, I did wonder if Sherlock had some grand plan from early on that all these odd things might be part of.   But the commentary makes it clear that he was meant to be taken in by Mary - that she was SO likeable that he missed all the clues. I think there are some likeable things about her, but I don't feel she's as likeable as all that (I think I preferred Sarah! And Sherlock wasn't all over her).

Last edited by Liberty (January 6, 2015 9:23 am)