BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SolarSystem · January 5, 2015 6:00 pm

Right now I'm mainly interested in when and how she will leave. (And if anyone wants to accuse me of being a hater, be my guest. I have reasons beyond hate, but I'm tired of repeating myself.)

besleybean · January 5, 2015 6:05 pm

Well I agree with you on the first part.

Schmiezi · January 5, 2015 6:38 pm

Dear people who love Mary,
if Mary would leave the show (one way or another),
and Johnlock would actually happen (and please don't say it won't. It's a hypothetical question)
would you continue watching the show or would you stop watching?

I am really curious about it, after making a joke at another thread.

Vhanja · January 5, 2015 6:41 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Dear people who love Mary,
if Mary would leave the show (one way or another),
and Johnlock would actually happen (and please don't say it won't. It's a hypothetical question)
would you continue watching the show or would you stop watching?

I am really curious about it, after making a joke at another thread.

Not sure if the question was directed at me, but I would break out the champagne.

mrshouse · January 5, 2015 6:44 pm

Don't laugh at me, but once I had this headcanon that Mary somehow dies and in her last seconds gives her blessing.
*running away and hiding*

besleybean · January 5, 2015 6:59 pm

I am sorry, but I am not being told on another thread how I am to answer...
I will always watch, whatever happens...will everybody else?

mrshouse · January 5, 2015 7:19 pm

That was not telling you off, bb. It was a question of serious curiosity. Answering it won't happen would not have served the purpose, that's all.

besleybean · January 5, 2015 7:24 pm

Obviously I understand that, but I really do object to being told what I can and cannot post.

mrshouse · January 5, 2015 7:27 pm

Woahhh...sooo sorry...

besleybean · January 5, 2015 7:29 pm

It wasn't you who said it, dear!

lil · January 5, 2015 7:30 pm

I will always watch because BCs Sherlock is unmissable.
However depending on how they complete the Mary storyline...that just might be the only thing I will be watching for.
The incredible aspects and coincidences in HLV and specifically with Marys character....are just too much to believably swallow as is for any person with half a brain.

Zatoichi · January 5, 2015 7:47 pm

It´s things like these expressions that make me doubt her emotional connection with Sherlock:

http://sensei-sama-sugoi.tumblr.com/post/107180741010/alantvring-sherlocks-face-because-hes-leaving

It´s just so out of sync to what the men are feeling in that moment.. and although it´s of course interpretation for me it seems odd that if your friend leaves into an unclear future you are so cheerful and completely unconcerned in that moment. Maybe it´s just because it´s so different to my own concept of friendship.. I hear them telling me "they are all thick as thieves now", but it doesn´t match the feeling I get from their interactions. Actually since the moment Mary suddenly teams up with Sherlock in the restaurant.. no one would ever do that, but you kind of buy it because you like her.. but what if you don´t? I was really prepared to like her (I´m no Johnlocker and I was happy for John for finally having found the partner he was looking for all through S1 and 2..) but actually did not. I did not like the way she acted in the restaurants, I did not like that "the most imperishable friendship in literature" suddenly seemed to depend on this new character "talking John Watson around", I did not like how suddenly she was the only grown-up in their trio who had to rush in and save the day because Sherlock couldn´t cram this one crucial information in his mind-palace anymore and couldn´t do his work properly without her barking at him.. and so on.

So I´m biased against her, because I want my own feelings to be validated.. but I can accept that it´s probably not what the writers intended. They (and many others) find Mary completely likable and their new dynamics endearing.. well. Probably time for me to finally cave in and dive into fanfiction.. (Especially since I have the feeling we still have to wait a loooong time for S4 in which Mary probably dies and it doesn´t matter anymore..)

nakahara · January 5, 2015 8:20 pm

Zatoichi wrote:
It´s things like these expressions that make me doubt her emotional connection with Sherlock:

http://sensei-sama-sugoi.tumblr.com/post/107180741010/alantvring-sherlocks-face-because-hes-leaving

It´s just so out of sync to what the men are feeling in that moment.. and although it´s of course interpretation for me it seems odd that if your friend leaves into an unclear future you are so cheerful and completely unconcerned in that moment. Maybe it´s just because it´s so different to my own concept of friendship.. I hear them telling me "they are all thick as thieves now", but it doesn´t match the feeling I get from their interactions. Actually since the moment Mary suddenly teams up with Sherlock in the restaurant.. no one would ever do that, but you kind of buy it because you like her.. but what if you don´t? I was really prepared to like her (I´m no Johnlocker and I was happy for John for finally having found the partner he was looking for all through S1 and 2..) but actually did not. I did not like the way she acted in the restaurants, I did not like that "the most imperishable friendship in literature" suddenly seemed to depend on this new character "talking John Watson around", I did not like how suddenly she was the only grown-up in their trio who had to rush in and save the day because Sherlock couldn´t cram this one crucial information in his mind-palace anymore and couldn´t do his work properly without her barking at him.. and so on.

Thank you, Zatoichi, you precisely named the problems I had with the way Mary was written, the way she acted around other characters, the way other characters were dumbed down to make her look brilliant, the way John´s and Sherlock´s friendship started to be dependent on her "approval". That´s why I pointed out how all this makes her look like Mary Sue (the problem which I had not with an original Mary).

And that´s exactly why I have such problems with acepting some statements from the authors of the show. When they declare that:

Mary´s shooting of Sherlock was but a surgery,
Mary, John and Sherlock are a happy trio of friends at the end of HLV,
Sherlock is a bad, evil monster,
John is happy for Sherlock that he has found a girlfriend in Janine,
etc.

it´s as if they also claimed that:

Mrs. Hudson is not Sherlock´s landlady, just some random woman from the street,
Lestrade is a corrupt gambler,
Mycroft loves Christmas and interactions with strange people,
etc.

Because those claims aren´t actually backed up by the story I have seen thus far.

Vhanja · January 5, 2015 8:23 pm

Zatoichi wrote:
It´s things like these expressions that make me doubt her emotional connection with Sherlock:

http://sensei-sama-sugoi.tumblr.com/post/107180741010/alantvring-sherlocks-face-because-hes-leaving

It´s just so out of sync to what the men are feeling in that moment.. and although it´s of course interpretation for me it seems odd that if your friend leaves into an unclear future you are so cheerful and completely unconcerned in that moment. Maybe it´s just because it´s so different to my own concept of friendship.. I hear them telling me "they are all thick as thieves now", but it doesn´t match the feeling I get from their interactions. Actually since the moment Mary suddenly teams up with Sherlock in the restaurant.. no one would ever do that, but you kind of buy it because you like her.. but what if you don´t? I was really prepared to like her (I´m no Johnlocker and I was happy for John for finally having found the partner he was looking for all through S1 and 2..) but actually did not. I did not like the way she acted in the restaurants, I did not like that "the most imperishable friendship in literature" suddenly seemed to depend on this new character "talking John Watson around", I did not like how suddenly she was the only grown-up in their trio who had to rush in and save the day because Sherlock couldn´t cram this one crucial information in his mind-palace anymore and couldn´t do his work properly without her barking at him.. and so on.

So I´m biased against her, because I want my own feelings to be validated.. but I can accept that it´s probably not what the writers intended. They (and many others) find Mary completely likable and their new dynamics endearing.. well. Probably time for me to finally cave in and dive into fanfiction.. (Especially since I have the feeling we still have to wait a loooong time for S4 in which Mary probably dies and it doesn´t matter anymore..)

That was a very well-written critique that I have no trouble understanding.

SusiGo · January 5, 2015 8:47 pm

Zatoichi, thank you very much for writing this summary. It is good to hear these points made from someone who does not support Johnlock and yet has problems to see Mary the way she is - allegedly - supposed to be seen. Maybe this finally proves that liking Johnlock and disliking Mary do not depend on each other.

I still cringe every time I watch the napkin scene - not because of the napkins but because of the way she patronises the men.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 5, 2015 8:49 pm)

besleybean · January 5, 2015 8:51 pm

Really?
I think she's genuinely concerned about them both.

SolarSystem · January 5, 2015 8:54 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I still cringe every time I watch the napkin scene - not because of the napkins but because of the way she patronises the men.

That scene would actually be one of the most beautiful scenes of the entire show - if Mary wasn't around.

Schmiezi · January 5, 2015 8:54 pm

When I first watched it, I found her behaviour strangely inappropriate. Now I suspect that she wanted to get rid of them to do some stuff we don't know of.

besleybean · January 5, 2015 8:56 pm

Wedding stuff?

SusiGo · January 5, 2015 8:57 pm

This is not what I see. Telling Sherlock how clever she is and that she sees through him while John is dumb enough to fall for Sherlock's stories. I never liked her in that scene.