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December 20, 2014 10:37 pm  #1081


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

So it is just BBCThree who do not love her?

 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

December 20, 2014 10:39 pm  #1082


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Obviously not.


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December 20, 2014 10:41 pm  #1083


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Indeed. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2014 11:00 pm  #1084


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

That's quite a statement to come from a tv channel?!


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December 20, 2014 11:05 pm  #1085


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Oh BBC 3's always at it...it's like the wild teenager of the BBC world!


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December 20, 2014 11:06 pm  #1086


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

BBC3 strikes again and it's not just them.

Hating and disliking  Mary is just as valid an opinion as loving and liking Mary..there is a large list of reasons for it..after all Sherlock is the main squeeze...and she did shoot him.

Rather annoying to be shunted off as a johnlocker for that...

 

December 20, 2014 11:10 pm  #1087


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Who's shunting  anybody off?


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December 20, 2014 11:16 pm  #1088


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Vhanja wrote:

That's quite a statement to come from a tv channel?!

Yes. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

December 20, 2014 11:25 pm  #1089


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

And not a private tv channel, but public and tax funded 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

December 20, 2014 11:28 pm  #1090


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Only the best our BBC, I'm very proud of it.


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December 21, 2014 1:35 am  #1091


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I think BBC Three and I may be soul mates.


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"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

December 21, 2014 8:26 am  #1092


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

If Mary is redeemed and accepted in the special/S4 - what would it take for us to accept that?

For me:

1. An explanation of why Sherlock "died" if Mary wasn't shooting to kill. Even something ludicrous, but just so that I could know for sure that's what she really meant to do.

2. An explanation of why Sherlock risks his life to tell John.  John isn't at risk at that point  - Sherlock is.   So Sherlock thinks the risk of not doing anything is greater than the risk of possible death from leaving the hospital.  He's really scared of Mary.  Again, even something ludicrous or blatant - it's actually more important to me that it fits to the plot than anything at this point.

and possibly

3. Something from Mary - we've got nothing at the moment.  She doesn't give any of the exposition or explanations.   We've only heard about her through Sherlock (and Magnussen).    I feel she needs to say something (or we need to see her do something). 

I suppose we might get 3, but I'm going to struggle if we don't get 1 and 2!  But if we did get all 3, I would happily move on. 

 

 

December 21, 2014 8:44 am  #1093


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I think Sherlock was being kind to Mary...it was attempted surgery, not totally without risk! She could just as easily have blasted his brains out.
I think Sherlock just thought John needed to know the truth...possibly, too, he thought Mary may have another go at CAM and at that time wanted to prevent his.
Mainly I can move on because Sherlock and John seem to have done.
But more explanation is always welcome and it'll be interesting to see what they do with mother and babe.
I am currently swaying to Mary taking a bullet for somebody..maybe she goes to warn the boys about a trap or something.
 

Last edited by besleybean (December 21, 2014 8:44 am)


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December 21, 2014 9:43 am  #1094


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Yes, there was a risk, but there was no need to write that in.  I do think the lack of a headshot is important (because Sherlock uses a headshot with such devastating effect), but having Sherlock "die" kind of wipes that out.  It looks as if they wanted to do a "death" scene, then brushed over how it affects the plot (and Mary's intentions).  (Unless I'm misjudging and all will be revealed in S4!). 

I can't think that Sherlock needed John to know the truth so urgently that he'd risk his life.  John wasn't at risk from Mary at that point (Sherlock thought he was when he was first shot, but that's because he didn't know what was happening), but Sherlock was. 

I do think there's evidence for Mary being genuine, but I'd like those other things explained if I'm going to go along with it.  I've thought a lot about John apparently forgiving Mary and throwing away the memory stick, and I think that's just about plausible.   It's how he is with Sherlock - the attitude of "whatever you do, I know you must have an important reason, and I don't need to know it".  And he is somebody who has killed as well when he thought it was necessary.   And Sherlock has trained himself to be objective so wouldn't take the shooting as personally as some might. 

 

December 21, 2014 10:33 am  #1095


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

We have had this before but John and Sherlock both killed for selfless reasons and Mary did/does not. John and Sherlock are basically acting out of moral principles (Sherlock deduces this as eary als ASiP) and Mary acts out of selfish motives. 
I simply cannot see John thinking "oh, yes, you killed lots of people in the past but if you had important reasons, I am fine with it". He has been shown as a moral compass to Sherlock. So why would he accept anything less in his wife?

And what is interesting: Here we have a man who brings a gun to a Christmas party just because his friend asks him to do so. What did he expect? John had no idea of the Magnussen plan. The only potentially dangerous person at the Holmeses cottage is his own wife. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

December 21, 2014 11:12 am  #1096


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I really cannot see he brought the gun because of Mary...possibly he didn't want to leave it in the house when they weren't there.
Maybe he wsas hoping for an adventure..


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December 21, 2014 11:32 am  #1097


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Well, Mary implies that she kills the bad guys who are beyond the law - just like John and Sherlock (the cabbie, Moriarty and Magnussen).  Magnussen implies something worse, but it's not clear (and it's Magnussen!), and John might just believe what he wants to believe (I think that's actually true to life - if you suddenly found out that somebody you loved and trusted was a killer, you'd probably easily believe that they must have had a very good reason.  I think you try to fit things in with what you already "know").   We're just not given enough of Mary's background to judge properly. 

Self-protection obviously isn't selfless, but it's actually a pretty good reason/excuse.  It's not just about keeping John for her, but staying alive (and protecting the unborn baby, possibly, too).   I think John could recognise that, especially if he believes the surgery story.  I just wish that they'd given us more to go on if they want us to accept it.

 

December 21, 2014 11:34 am  #1098


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Although they have said they write for themselves...


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December 21, 2014 12:27 pm  #1099


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I think some people overestimate Moftiss a bit. These are the geniuses who didn't think of googling the German justice system (Mark said somewhere that this is because it's from Anderson's perspective. Nice try, doesn't work). Not everything they write makes complete sense but actually I'm fine with that. I still think they're good. 

I think they wrote the shooting for shock value and then created the assassin story in order to sell it. Maybe not everyone bought it, but for the casual viewer, the explanation probably makes enough sense to suspend disbelief. They don't really write for people who spend more time thinking about the stories than they do themselves. 

With that in mind, I don't think they'll linger on explaining this story. We'll probably see John still angry about it while Sherlock has moved on. My personal solution would be to make Mary the McMurdo character. I think it was the Boss who first suggested that idea here, I still think it's the best one so far. 

 

December 21, 2014 1:14 pm  #1100


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I need to know my Canon better.


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