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June 4, 2014 9:23 pm  #501


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

nakahara wrote:

THIS!!!
Finally a proof that Sherlock´s story about Mary being all concerned about him and calling an ambulance was just a big fat lie....

Well, we see her phone an ambulance...
 


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John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

June 4, 2014 9:27 pm  #502


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Interesting. 
And, tobe, we only see Sherlock telling that Mary called an ambulance. It is his report, not the actual scene. He has only three seconds of consciousness left. She needs to turn around, smack Magnussen over the head and then dial the number wearing gloves (!). 

 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

June 4, 2014 9:27 pm  #503


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

tobeornot221b wrote:

nakahara wrote:

THIS!!!
Finally a proof that Sherlock´s story about Mary being all concerned about him and calling an ambulance was just a big fat lie....

Well, we see her phone an ambulance...
 

The fact that she held a telephone doesn´t mean she actually called it.
She would be identified by an operator - and how would she explain her presence in CAM´s office?
 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

June 4, 2014 9:37 pm  #504


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

nakahara wrote:

tobeornot221b wrote:

nakahara wrote:


THIS!!!
Finally a proof that Sherlock´s story about Mary being all concerned about him and calling an ambulance was just a big fat lie....

Well, we see her phone an ambulance...
 

The fact that she held a telephone doesn´t mean she actually called it.
She would be identified by an operator - and how would she explain her presence in CAM´s office?
 

She could have blocked her number. And yes, Solar: We just see her phoning in Sherlock's report. He must have been aware of this though he hadn't much time of consciousness left. Why would he lie to John about her having saved his life? I tend to believe Mary that she was kind of truly sorry about her shooting Sherlock. And: It's not the first time that the writers weren't accurate about certain details. Remember the German jury in MHR?


 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

June 4, 2014 9:49 pm  #505


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

You are forgetting that Mary is pregnant with John.
And John seemed deliriously happy at the end of TSOT when this fact was revealed to him.
Now isn´t this motivation enough for Sherlock to lie and to try to save their relationship? 


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

June 4, 2014 9:55 pm  #506


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

But seeing Mary make the call is in Sherlock's mind, right? We don't know if it actually happened or if he thought it happened.

If someone made an initial call (never mind real life where John would have been informed of this), it's likely Magnussen is the one who made it. Just as Mary says threatens to kill Sherlock, Magnussen glances towards her, sees that she's distracted, and reaches for the phone, which is on the floor beside him (you see that it's the phone later, about the time the klaxxons go off).

Bonus note: you're probably all so focused on Mary and Sherlock during that bit that you might not have noticed the look on Magnussen's face after the gun goes off. He looks absolutely incredulous and shocked.

Mary "I have watched this scene more times than is probably healthy, but Shocked!Sherlock is so much fun to watch" Watson


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

June 4, 2014 9:56 pm  #507


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

tobeornot221b wrote:

Why would he lie to John about her having saved his life? I tend to believe Mary that she was kind of truly sorry about her shooting Sherlock.

But if she was truly sorry, why did she not once apologize to him? She never said sorry! On the contrary, later on she threatened him once again.
And Sherlock said so many wild and weird things in that scene in 221B with John and Mary... he did this because he had a plan, because he wanted Mary to believe that she was safe and because he wanted John to trust her. 
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 4, 2014 10:01 pm  #508


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

nakahara wrote:

You are forgetting that Mary is pregnant with John.
And John seemed deliriously happy at the end of TSOT when this fact was revealed to him.
Now isn´t this motivation enough for Sherlock to lie and to try to save their relationship? 

Deliriously happy doesn't begin to describe John at the end of TSOT. You could omit the definition of 'happiness' in the dictionary and replace it with this picture.  Wow, he's gorgeous here.


I think that, yes, if Sherlock thought that Mary was no threat to John, he might let lie to salvage what he can of John's happiness.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

June 4, 2014 10:01 pm  #509


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Yes, he wanted to be sure John was safe when he, Sherlock, had to leave for good. ("Tell Mary she's safe now..." No need for her, then, to kill John.)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."


I BELIEVE IN SERIES 5!




                                                                                                                  
 

June 4, 2014 10:03 pm  #510


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SolarSystem wrote:

...  he did this because he had a plan, because he wanted Mary to believe that she was safe and because he wanted John to trust her.  

Now this reminds me of his behaviour TRF somewhat. He doesn' tell John the truth about a most crucial matter in order to protect him from himself.
 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

June 4, 2014 10:05 pm  #511


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

IMO everything he does from the moment he ecapes from hospital is meant to protect to John and to lull Mary into a sense of security. He hands her the explanation for everything she did and why John allegedly felt attracted to her on a silver platter. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

June 4, 2014 10:10 pm  #512


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

SusiGo wrote:

IMO everything he does from the moment he ecapes from hospital is meant to protect to John and to lull Mary into a sense of security. He hands her the explanation for everything she did and why John allegedly felt attracted to her on a silver platter. 

Exactly what I'm thinking!

I do believe that Mary loves John, as much as she is capable of loving someone. But her instinct for self-preservation is very high. I'd consider her a sociopath.

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

June 4, 2014 10:23 pm  #513


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Harriet wrote:

SolarSystem wrote:

... he did this because he had a plan, because he wanted Mary to believe that she was safe and because he wanted John to trust her.  

Now this reminds me of his behaviour TRF somewhat. He doesn' tell John the truth about a most crucial matter in order to protect him from himself.
 

Yes, there is a parallel. Maybe he again fears that John will do something to endanger himself. And there is the baby he wants to protect as well (for John's sake). 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

June 4, 2014 10:24 pm  #514


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

And he knows what is best for John and doesn't let him know or decide.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

June 5, 2014 1:54 am  #515


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I had another thought about Mary, regarding the bookend 'you should put that on a tee-shirt' comments to John from her in TEH and from CAM in HLV. Another coincidence or could CAM and Mary have been working together somehow?

Mary


John: That's clever. So you scratch their backs and...
Sherlock: Yes. And then disinfect myself.
 

June 5, 2014 5:34 am  #516


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Many characters use similaer language...same writer?!
Mycroft refers to the toxic waste site of 221B...
Similar to Janine's 'scuzz stop' comment, or whatever it is she says..


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

June 5, 2014 7:16 am  #517


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I don't think Mary was in cahoots with CAM.
 I'm a bit uncomfortable with this tendency of turning her into the utter villain. I don't think she is, and I really hope I'm right there. I also think her love for John is genuine.
 


------------------------------------------------------------------

"When you walk with Sherlock Holmes, you see the battlefield" M.H.

"My brother has the brain of scientist or a philosopher, and yet he elects to be a detective...what might we deduce about his heart?" M.H.

"Home is now behind you, the world is ahead."
 
 

June 5, 2014 7:33 am  #518


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

the_dancing_woman wrote:

I don't think Mary was in cahoots with CAM.
 I'm a bit uncomfortable with this tendency of turning her into the utter villain. I don't think she is, and I really hope I'm right there. I also think her love for John is genuine.

At the same time I hope they won't turn her into a totally innocent victim in S4 by giving us a backstory that just has to make us go "Oh my god, poor girl, she really had no other choice than to do all the things she did in S3!". 
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 5, 2014 7:39 am  #519


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

I do not think she is an utter villain like Moriarty or Magnussen but I have my doubts about the character of her love for John. At least where selflessness is concerned. My thoughts about this are in the first post of this thread and I have not changed my mind since. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
     Thread Starter
 

June 5, 2014 9:11 am  #520


Re: My thoughts about Mary (all episodes)

Solar mentioned that she's not interested in a back story which makes us go:" poor girl, she did it all for good and really had no choice". Actually, me neither, but this is just the second worst scenario. The worst for me would be to not pick up her strange story up at all and us as fans would have to swallow the status quo with our trio as it was left. That would be most unsatisfying, indeed.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

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