I noticed that too!  Awfully big crowd, wasn't it? 
To a certain extent, they kind of had to fill the room a little, or it would have been even more noticeable how empty it was.  TV for you.  But beyond that, I also got the sense that Mary's side was sparse, but even after she escaped/left/retired her old line of work, she still could've made some new friends and contacts.  Just no family. 

John, on the other hand… it is interesting the 'closest' other contacts of his we know about (Harry and Mike) didn't show.  But he could've had plenty of friends from when he was a soldier that, even if not particularly still close, would have come to his wedding (hey, Sholto did).  And maybe friends he made through his work or going out with Mary, after Sherlock left.  The 'they hate him' part you mentioned we only hear Sherlock say in the mini-episode… and for all we know, Sherlock could have been mistaken, or misjudged their hate for annoyance at Sherlock.  Plus the 'I was so alone' is kind of loaded with meaning for me, too.  I take it as he was so alone, before Sherlock came along and changed things for him and 'got' him.  He could have had other friends, we know he had other family, but still felt so alone because he couldn't turn to any of them after being invalided home.


Oh, and something else occurred to me… of course some of those guests would have brought a date, too, right?  Instant surplus. 

Last edited by Russell (February 15, 2014 3:33 am)

But she was mentioned. At the beginning of the wedding, just before Sholto arrived, Mary asked John about Harry and he told her that she won't come and that this is probably for the best because of the free drinks at the wedding. So, she is not dead and we can still hope that we might see her one day  .

"So sorry about that last one", I see that as Sherlock trying to make a joke of his own 'death'... 

But yes, I did wonder how so many people were there... maybe some of them were friends of John and Mary's friends? Who were kind enough to show up... I don't know all that much about weddings and British weddings especially. But can't you make 'plus one' invitations. That would surely double the crowd. 

It is possible to have a lot of people in your life, but still feel isolated and alone.  John lived for a while before meeting Sherlock. They mentioned cousins.  There were also people he probably knew from school, Medical school, work and his time in the Army.  Many of them could have been living away from London or been very busy.  Heck, between work and married life, John barely has any contact with Sherlock the first month after the wedding.  I have several friends and family members that I'm on hugging terms with, but between work and other things I just don't see them very often.  When John came home from the war several of his friends were probably busy with work and raising families.  Life happens.

When is considered a weeding big or small in UK? I lived in two cultures, in one under 100 guests is a small wedding (and if you live in a village you might need to invite half of the neighbourhood) , for the other having 60 guests was a normal one. 

A lovely light wrote:

When is considered a weeding big or small in UK? I lived in two cultures, in one under 100 guests is a small wedding (and if you live in a village you might need to invite half of the neighbourhood) , for the other having 60 guests was a normal one. 

I don't know what you'd call big or small here!  What seems to be quite common is to have a smaller number of people for the main reception (with the meal), and then a larger number later on.   I thought that there were a lot of people there considering that neither John nor Mary seemed to have close family there, and John didn't seem to have a huge amount of friends.   It certainly looked like an expensive wedding.  The catering must have cost a bomb, for a start, and there was a free bar, expensive flower arrangements everywhere, etc.   Most people don't get married in church, so that must have been showing something about the couple (religion? tradition?) that they chose that over a civil ceremony. 

SusiGo wrote:

I always wondered the same. Some of the men look like night club bouncers or bodyguards. 

And what struck me about series 3 as a whole - John seems more lonelier and isolated than Sherlock. Sherlock has a complete family with parents and brother who care for him even if the relationship is not very close. John on the other hand only has a sister from whom he is estranged and who we never meet (so far). We know nothing about other siblings or his parents. He does not seem to be acquainted with any of the guests but the usual suspects plus Sholto. As for his friends Sherlock mentions in "Many Happy Returns" - who are these friends? I can only think of Mike and Greg, nobody else. And remember his words at the grave: "I was so alone." And I cannot imagine him meeting lots of people while mourning Sherlock.  

Yes, that struck me too.  And apart from Mike (who wasn't there, and hardly seems to feature in John's life) and Sholto (who again, doesn't seem to feature much in John's life outside of the wedding), the "usual suspects" were more connected to Sherlock than John.  LeStrade, Molly and Mrs Hudson are all people John only knows through Sherlock, and Sherlock continues to be closer to them than John is (in my opinion).  Sherlock's parents are lovely and Mycroft is caring, despite the odd relationship.   Although John is the one supposedly teaching Sherlock about human relationships, Sherlock actually seems to be doing pretty well with other people, while John seems more wrapped in Sherlock (and Mary). 

Last edited by Liberty (August 12, 2014 7:15 am)

SusiGo wrote:

Yes, this is true. And we have to count Mycroft in who was invited but chose not to come. (Interesting point, btw: Why did he not come? Because he knows something about Mary? Because he does not want to see Sherlock getting involved? I think it must be more than just a simple aversion to "mingling").

Of course, Mycroft had to be first choice when it came to invite family, friends and "others".
I think he was a "victim" for dramaturgical reasons. If he had been written into the wedding then Sherlock could have appeared to be less lonesome and his tremendous departure at the end - the lonely wolf - less impressive. Mycroft surely would not have managed to stand through the whole "do" as well and would have left prematurely - an unwanted situation and equally competition.
 

Liberty wrote:

A lovely light wrote:

When is considered a weeding big or small in UK? I lived in two cultures, in one under 100 guests is a small wedding (and if you live in a village you might need to invite half of the neighbourhood) , for the other having 60 guests was a normal one. 

I don't know what you'd call big or small here!  What seems to be quite common is to have a smaller number of people for the main reception (with the meal), and then a larger number later on.   I thought that there were a lot of people there considering that neither John nor Mary seemed to have close family there, and John didn't seem to have a huge amount of friends.   It certainly looked like an expensive wedding.  The catering must have cost a bomb, for a start, and there was a free bar, expensive flower arrangements everywhere, etc.   Most people don't get married in church, so that must have been showing something about the couple (religion? tradition?) that they chose that over a civil ceremony. 

SusiGo wrote:

I always wondered the same. Some of the men look like night club bouncers or bodyguards. 

And what struck me about series 3 as a whole - John seems more lonelier and isolated than Sherlock. Sherlock has a complete family with parents and brother who care for him even if the relationship is not very close. John on the other hand only has a sister from whom he is estranged and who we never meet (so far). We know nothing about other siblings or his parents. He does not seem to be acquainted with any of the guests but the usual suspects plus Sholto. As for his friends Sherlock mentions in "Many Happy Returns" - who are these friends? I can only think of Mike and Greg, nobody else. And remember his words at the grave: "I was so alone." And I cannot imagine him meeting lots of people while mourning Sherlock.  

Yes, that struck me too.  And apart from Mike (who wasn't there, and hardly seems to feature in John's life) and Sholto (who again, doesn't seem to feature much in John's life outside of the wedding), the "usual suspects" were more connected to Sherlock than John.  LeStrade, Molly and Mrs Hudson are all people John only knows through Sherlock, and Sherlock continues to be closer to them than John is (in my opinion).  Sherlock's parents are lovely and Mycroft is caring, despite the odd relationship.   Although John is the one supposedly teaching Sherlock about human relationships, Sherlock actually seems to be doing pretty well with other people, while John seems more wrapped in Sherlock (and Mary). 

If we consider that both John and Mary work, that John is a doctor, he should win comfortably to live in a bigger apartment, have a car and a quite expensive wedding. 

I tried to count how many guests are, but i am rubbish at stopping a movie when it counts. I got 7 tables with 8, 9 people on each plus the 5(?) on the main table. This is actually not so much if you think that many people come with someone and not alone (poor Lestrade).

I was also surpraised to see only Sholto visibly from his army days. The most guests seem also to be Mary's guests, not his. Apart from the spoken cousin in 221b , we don't get any of John's family. He really looks lonely. Probably because he doesn't trust people and that makes difficult to him to have loads of friends. You also lose friends and aquintance when you are depressed.

I wish we would get more to know about John's past to understand him better. For me he is more difficult to read and a greater puzzle than Sherlock (to whom i can better relate in a way and we get also much more information through his relationship with Mycroft and his parents, but also through his aquintance, who are first his - Lestrade, Molly, Ms. Hudson, Anderson ...)


 

I wouldn't expect any different.

A TV wedding in particular!