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February 23, 2014 3:26 pm  #81


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Tinks wrote:

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

Willow wrote:

Sadly, not. I appreciate that it's nice to think that if you are dying all you have to do is work at it and you can miraculously wake up whenever you wish but it doesn't really work like that.
 

I assumed that waking up after flatlining is next to impossible, so if he manages to do that he should have been able to wake up earlier since it would have been easier then.

 
He fought for life - the whole Mind Palace scene symbolised that.
He couldn't do it, though - until he found that final push and managed to claw his way back - it might be true to say that Moriarty's mention of John gave him the reason to try even harder but the scene overall was designed to show what a battle was going on.
It's like running a race when you've absolutely nothing left to give, and then when the end is in sight, you somehow manage to dig up a final spurt of energy.

Then why didn't he even think of John up to that point?
I'm not saying that necessarily means he wanted to die, but he wasn't very enthusiastic about surviving either, up to that moment where he had that one thought that changed everything apparently. Then he suddenly managed to wake up under the most impossible circumstances.

Last edited by QuiteExtraordinary (February 23, 2014 3:34 pm)


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He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

… and his friends and all his family and I’ve no idea why I’m telling you this.
 

February 23, 2014 3:38 pm  #82


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Where on Earth do you get the idea he didn't want to live?


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 23, 2014 3:52 pm  #83


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

Tinks wrote:

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:


I assumed that waking up after flatlining is next to impossible, so if he manages to do that he should have been able to wake up earlier since it would have been easier then.

 
He fought for life - the whole Mind Palace scene symbolised that.
He couldn't do it, though - until he found that final push and managed to claw his way back - it might be true to say that Moriarty's mention of John gave him the reason to try even harder but the scene overall was designed to show what a battle was going on.
It's like running a race when you've absolutely nothing left to give, and then when the end is in sight, you somehow manage to dig up a final spurt of energy.

Then why didn't he even think of John up to that point?
I'm not saying that necessarily means he wanted to die, but he wasn't very enthusiastic about surviving either, up to that moment where he had that one thought that changed everything apparently. Then he suddenly managed to wake up under the most impossible circumstances.

 
He didn't think of anyone really, up to that point - his sole focus was on what to do to survive - hence Molly and Anderson, the ones with medical knowledge were the ones in the Palace with him, telling him what he needs to do.
And his big Brother, of course, who is always in there.
Finally he hits the very bottom, with no strength left to fight, and that's when the thoughts of those he cares about come to him, and the memory that John might be in danger - and he manages to find a final reserve of energy to drag himself back.


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

February 23, 2014 3:59 pm  #84


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

Well, many people don't like Mary, but that also doesn't mean I must follow suit. (no offense)

 
And none taken! 

It isn't about whether one likes or dislikes a character; it's about noting what happened. And what happened is that Sherlock failed his client because Mary shot him, and his client's husband died as a result.

 

February 23, 2014 6:11 pm  #85


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

It's another question if that wouldn't have happened if Sherlock had not been shot.

Tinks wrote:

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

Tinks wrote:

He fought for life - the whole Mind Palace scene symbolised that.
He couldn't do it, though - until he found that final push and managed to claw his way back - it might be true to say that Moriarty's mention of John gave him the reason to try even harder but the scene overall was designed to show what a battle was going on.
It's like running a race when you've absolutely nothing left to give, and then when the end is in sight, you somehow manage to dig up a final spurt of energy.

Then why didn't he even think of John up to that point?
I'm not saying that necessarily means he wanted to die, but he wasn't very enthusiastic about surviving either, up to that moment where he had that one thought that changed everything apparently. Then he suddenly managed to wake up under the most impossible circumstances.

He didn't think of anyone really, up to that point - his sole focus was on what to do to survive - hence Molly and Anderson, the ones with medical knowledge were the ones in the Palace with him, telling him what he needs to do.
And his big Brother, of course, who is always in there.
Finally he hits the very bottom, with no strength left to fight, and that's when the thoughts of those he cares about come to him, and the memory that John might be in danger - and he manages to find a final reserve of energy to drag himself back.

But he did have the time to think of Mary and Redbeard and Moriarty, and some other people Moriarty mentioned, before he finally remembered John.

Last edited by QuiteExtraordinary (February 23, 2014 6:15 pm)


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He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

… and his friends and all his family and I’ve no idea why I’m telling you this.
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 6:13 pm  #86


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Yes, but think what a hard time Sherlock gave Phillip, over wasting police time.

Last edited by besleybean (February 23, 2014 6:14 pm)


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 23, 2014 6:23 pm  #87


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

besleybean wrote:

Where on Earth do you get the idea he didn't want to live?

 
I explained that a couple of times already. But I did say it's a daring theory.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

… and his friends and all his family and I’ve no idea why I’m telling you this.
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 6:50 pm  #88


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Indeed; Sherlock might have failed if he'd been given the chance. But he wasn't ...

 

February 23, 2014 7:07 pm  #89


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

I think it's interesting that there's such a need to make Mary a "good girl" that we're willing to blame Sherlock not only for being shot, but for dying, and not reviving sooner. (Because that's so easy, he should have just not flatlined in the first place! Big dummy!) And now, he's at fault for not having John in his Mind Palace. So, of course he deserves what he got, right?

 And that, in a nutshell, would be Mary's thought process.

It's all about her. I find it very, very creepy. 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (February 23, 2014 7:34 pm)

 

February 23, 2014 7:13 pm  #90


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Willow wrote:

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

Well, many people don't like Mary, but that also doesn't mean I must follow suit. (no offense)

 
And none taken!

It isn't about whether one likes or dislikes a character; it's about noting what happened. And what happened is that Sherlock failed his client because Mary shot him, and his client's husband died as a result.

Yup. I think sometimes, it's tempting to make up new narratives to justify what we *want* to believe about our characters, regardless of what happened in the show, because it's so dissapointing when our favorite characters do things that are so rephrehensible. I think Season 3 broke a lot of hearts on a lot of different levels. 

One thing-- do people remember that CAM stated that he had whole Nations under his thumb? How many deaths has CAM indirectly caused? 

 

February 23, 2014 7:29 pm  #91


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

The thought that Mary could be just plain evil doesn't break my heart at all. It's just, the way I saw it, in the show they were trying to convince us that she's on the "good" side in the end, and I'm trying to think of alternative explanations that could justify this.


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He’s got a dog. We go to the pub on weekends. I’ve met his mum and dad …

… and his friends and all his family and I’ve no idea why I’m telling you this.
     Thread Starter
 

February 23, 2014 7:32 pm  #92


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

Nothing in the series broke my heart, I'm just interested to see how it all pans out.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

February 23, 2014 7:32 pm  #93


Re: Mary saving Sherlock

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:

The thought that Mary could be just plain evil doesn't break my heart at all. It's just, the way I saw it, in the show they were trying to convince us that she's on the "good" side in the end, and I'm trying to think of alternative explanations that could justify this.

Well, I'm totally broken-hearted. :-) 

Off to write some more fix-it fic. 

 

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