BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary saving Sherlock

QuiteExtraordinary · February 13, 2014 5:27 pm

I was hesitating to post this because it is a rather daring theory, and I'll probably have my head bitten off. But the more I think about it, and considering things I pointed out here: http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=4631 , the more likely it seems to me that it's true.
I know everyone's complaining about Mary because she put Sherlock's life in danger, but after thinking about it for a while I've come to a different conclusion.
I think Sherlock is a bit of a dreamer. He sees his life as a fairy tale with dragons and princesses, or as a play. Like he refers to the Reichenbach fall: "Like a scene from a play." I bet he thought that was great - Sherlock in the role of the dying hero. There was even a tiny little risk that he could actually have died (if he hadn't hit the airbag, or landed in a wrong way). Tragic. He would have died while doing his work, like a soldier in his uniform (like Major Sholto), and it would have been his own fault, instead of his enemies winning over him.

He was about to do something similar in PINK before John shot the cabbie. Sherlock was pretty sure he had chosen the right pill, but there was a risk left that it could be deadly poison.

So in HLV, when he is sure that he has no place in John's and Mary's life anymore, Sherlock is full of self-pity and totally pulls off the "heading towards a tragic death" thing. He's using drugs again and takes dangerous cases with an increasing risk that he'll get killed sooner or later.

In the CAM building, when he sees the situation with Magnussen and the assassin, Sherlock must have immediately concluded that the last thing the assassin wants is an eye-witness. So it's highly dangerous to approach her. (Even when he still thinks it's Lady Smallwood.) But he takes the risk and puts himself in danger, with a high probability that he'll get killed. After realising that it's Mary, he continues doing that - approaching her although she's seriously threatening him. Finally a chance for him to die a tragic death.

So what Mary does is far cleverer. With her medical knowledge and her experience as an assassin, she chooses a way to shoot Sherlock that will almost kill him, but not really. Just to show him dying isn't funny. She takes a high risk in doing that, risking her marriage, her life and even the life of her child, just to show Sherlock that he's needed and loved, and that his subliminal death wish is idiotic. And it helps. Sherlock's behaviour is much more reasonable afterwards.

This could also be the reason why he doesn't tell John and Mary in the end that Mycroft thinks Sherlock will die in Eastern Europe - out of consideration. He has learned how bad that would be for the two of them, so he pretends he's just going abroad for a long time, which is sad, but not that horrible.

CaseyB · February 13, 2014 6:03 pm

With out trying to address everything at once, a few immediate reactions:

I'm not sure Sherlock is necessarily resigned to a tragic death or doing drugs/dangerous cases because he's newly full of self-pity. He's always shown a high-risk tolerance. I think he's come to terms with his own mortality and decided not to live in fear or hold back enjoyiing life because something may be dangerious. As I see it, he's not delibrately puting himself in risky situations because he has a subconcisous death wish/desire to die a heroic death, but rather he's just not afraid to take risks when he deems them necessary.

As for the eye-witness, I'm not sure Sherlock thought he was in mortal danger. He thought it was Lady Smallwood, and he thought she wanted the blackmail CAM had on her, a case she had brought to him. She doesn't strike me as the murdering type, so Sherlock might have thought he could talk some sense into her. I don't think he thought interrupting had a high risk of being shot when he walked in.

I don't think Mary shot Sherlock to convince him he's needed and loved. I think she shoots him because its her best option at that point to prevent John from discovering her past. She needed to incapacitate him so he couldn't call John.

MahnSherlolly03 · February 13, 2014 6:18 pm

This is a really lovely idea and I may have to accept it as headcanon.

QuiteExtraordinary · February 13, 2014 6:55 pm

MahnSherlolly03 wrote:
This is a really lovely idea and I may have to accept it as headcanon.

That's nice of you to say. I know my theory could be total nonsense based on emotional overreacting, but I just think it's nicer than always seeing everything so negatively.

Willow · February 13, 2014 8:05 pm

CaseyB wrote:
With out trying to address everything at once, a few immediate reactions:

I'm not sure Sherlock is necessarily resigned to a tragic death or doing drugs/dangerous cases because he's newly full of self-pity. He's always shown a high-risk tolerance. I think he's come to terms with his own mortality and decided not to live in fear or hold back enjoyiing life because something may be dangerious. As I see it, he's not delibrately puting himself in risky situations because he has a subconcisous death wish/desire to die a heroic death, but rather he's just not afraid to take risks when he deems them necessary.

As for the eye-witness, I'm not sure Sherlock thought he was in mortal danger. He thought it was Lady Smallwood, and he thought she wanted the blackmail CAM had on her, a case she had brought to him. She doesn't strike me as the murdering type, so Sherlock might have thought he could talk some sense into her. I don't think he thought interrupting had a high risk of being shot when he walked in.

I don't think Mary shot Sherlock to convince him he's needed and loved. I think she shoots him because its her best option at that point to prevent John from discovering her past. She needed to incapacitate him so he couldn't call John.

I think that more or less sums up my reactions; I don't think Sherlock finds danger in itself interesting. It may be a factor in cases which he does find interesting but it seems to me that the intellectual puzzle comes first; if it is also physically dangerous then that's the price you pay for the head buzz. What matters is whether something is intellectually challenging, and whether it engages his inner dragon slayer; the perfect case needs both for him...

QuiteExtraordinary · February 13, 2014 8:23 pm

So what if Sherlock stands for the intellectual puzzle solver, and Mary for the emotional intelligence? Maybe that's why she was the one who remembered Major Sholto's room number, for example. Sholto was suicidal. She could have seen it somehow, or concluded it from the fact that he attended the wedding at all although he got so many death threats. So he had to be kept an eye on.

MahnSherlolly03 · February 13, 2014 8:26 pm

That also seems plausible to me. I think it would also have to do with knowing both her husband and Sherlock, and seeing similarities between the two of them and Sholto.

Willow · February 13, 2014 9:02 pm

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
So what if Sherlock stands for the intellectual puzzle solver, and Mary for the emotional intelligence? Maybe that's why she was the one who remembered Major Sholto's room number, for example. Sholto was suicidal. She could have seen it somehow, or concluded it from the fact that he attended the wedding at all although he got so many death threats. So he had to be kept an eye on.

But Mary doesn't demonstrate emotional intelligence; she's the person who keeps saying that stuff would break John when it turns out that he's surprisingly resilient. Of course, he didn't get shot, which might have made a difference...

QuiteExtraordinary · February 13, 2014 9:06 pm

Swanpride wrote:
I guess the difference between Mary and Sherlock is that Mary is trained to pay attention to details and keep them in mind in case she needs them later on - especially stuff like schedules and architectural outlays. Sherlock on the other hand trained himself to notice details, disregard what is not important and come to conclusions based on said details. In the disregarding part lays the danger, because he can't know what will be important at one point. But I bet he notices more than Mary and is able to reach conclusions which would never occur to her.

I guess John is the one with the emotional intelligence...even if it tends to trip him up in certain situations.

Yes, you have a point there.
On the other hand ... Mary managed to distract Sherlock from her connection to Magnussen and the problems with her past for a long time, using the feelings he has for John and her and his love of solving crimes. Empathy is necessary for that. And in contrast to Sherlock, Mary says she has "lots of friends", so she's able to easily win people's hearts.

@Willow: John forgave Mary after Sherlock demonstrated to him that he trusted Mary completely, so much that he put John in a position where she could have shot him, thinking he was Sherlock.
And the thought of "breaking" John wouldn't even occur to Sherlock. That's Mary being considerate, Sherlock being inconsiderate.

Last edited by QuiteExtraordinary (February 13, 2014 9:16 pm)

Schmiezi · February 13, 2014 9:22 pm

QE, I love the way you analyze the show. One can agree or disagree with your results, but the analysis is based on facts (=scenes from the show) and therefore always comprehensible.

In this case, I completely agree with you, because I also want to see things in a positive way. Well done!!

QuiteExtraordinary · February 13, 2014 10:22 pm

Thanks, Schmiezi.

Another thing: some people have pointed out that Mary calling the ambulance before John did is unrealistic because they would have told John (and later the police) that they've been informed already.What if that was just a lie Sherlock made up so he could tell John Mary saved his life without having to admit she actually did it by showing him there was no need to be suicidal?

Willow · February 13, 2014 10:23 pm

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
I guess the difference between Mary and Sherlock is that Mary is trained to pay attention to details and keep them in mind in case she needs them later on - especially stuff like schedules and architectural outlays. Sherlock on the other hand trained himself to notice details, disregard what is not important and come to conclusions based on said details. In the disregarding part lays the danger, because he can't know what will be important at one point. But I bet he notices more than Mary and is able to reach conclusions which would never occur to her.

I guess John is the one with the emotional intelligence...even if it tends to trip him up in certain situations.

Yes, you have a point there.
On the other hand ... Mary managed to distract Sherlock from her connection to Magnussen and the problems with her past for a long time, using the feelings he has for John and her and his love of solving crimes. Empathy is necessary for that. And in contrast to Sherlock, Mary says she has "lots of friends", so she's able to easily win people's hearts.

@Willow: John forgave Mary after Sherlock demonstrated to him that he trusted Mary completely, so much that he put John in a position where she could have shot him, thinking he was Sherlock.
And the thought of "breaking" John wouldn't even occur to Sherlock. That's Mary being considerate, Sherlock being inconsiderate.

Yes; we're back to me looking at what people do rather than what they say. Mary claims to have lots of friends but she's having trouble filling her side of the church whereas John, also an orphan, has a lot more than her; the only 'friend' singled out by Mary to be her chief bridesmaid turns out to be her link to CAM. Also, Sherlock was undoubtedly running short on oxygen whilst making the decisions you refer to; no-one makes good decisions whilst the oxygen supply to their brain is low. I really cannot base a judgement on Sherlock's belief that he could diagnose a shot as 'surgery' because it's nonsense.

I can, on the other hand, note that Sherlock has a very romanticised view of motherhood based on what his mother actually did; Sherlock wants to believe that Mary is a victim, more sinned against than sinning, because she is pregnant. But within two minutes of John throwing the memory stick in the fire Mary was issuing orders about John not having any input into the choice of the baby's name, which in turn led to John lying by omission to Sherlock in their last conversation.

So no, having real problems in seeing this as a more positive interpretation; I think Moffat was seeing how far he could push it but for me it came unstuck, badly, when John threatened to kill Sherlock. I do not regard threatening to kill someone as a sign of affection, just as I do not regard shooting someone as a sign of affection.

MahnSherlolly03 · February 13, 2014 10:52 pm

Willow wrote:
QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
Swanpride wrote:
I guess the difference between Mary and Sherlock is that Mary is trained to pay attention to details and keep them in mind in case she needs them later on - especially stuff like schedules and architectural outlays. Sherlock on the other hand trained himself to notice details, disregard what is not important and come to conclusions based on said details. In the disregarding part lays the danger, because he can't know what will be important at one point. But I bet he notices more than Mary and is able to reach conclusions which would never occur to her.

I guess John is the one with the emotional intelligence...even if it tends to trip him up in certain situations.

Yes, you have a point there.
On the other hand ... Mary managed to distract Sherlock from her connection to Magnussen and the problems with her past for a long time, using the feelings he has for John and her and his love of solving crimes. Empathy is necessary for that. And in contrast to Sherlock, Mary says she has "lots of friends", so she's able to easily win people's hearts.

@Willow: John forgave Mary after Sherlock demonstrated to him that he trusted Mary completely, so much that he put John in a position where she could have shot him, thinking he was Sherlock.
And the thought of "breaking" John wouldn't even occur to Sherlock. That's Mary being considerate, Sherlock being inconsiderate.
Yes; we're back to me looking at what people do rather than what they say. Mary claims to have lots of friends but she's having trouble filling her side of the church whereas John, also an orphan, has a lot more than her; the only 'friend' singled out by Mary to be her chief bridesmaid turns out to be her link to CAM. Also, Sherlock was undoubtedly running short on oxygen whilst making the decisions you refer to; no-one makes good decisions whilst the oxygen supply to their brain is low. I really cannot base a judgement on Sherlock's belief that he could diagnose a shot as 'surgery' because it's nonsense.

I can, on the other hand, note that Sherlock has a very romanticised view of motherhood based on what his mother actually did; Sherlock wants to believe that Mary is a victim, more sinned against than sinning, because she is pregnant. But within two minutes of John throwing the memory stick in the fire Mary was issuing orders about John not having any input into the choice of the baby's name, which in turn led to John lying by omission to Sherlock in their last conversation.

So no, having real problems in seeing this as a more positive interpretation; I think Moffat was seeing how far he could push it but for me it came unstuck, badly, when John threatened to kill Sherlock. I do not regard threatening to kill someone as a sign of affection, just as I do not regard shooting someone as a sign of affection.

I may be severly wrong, but I kind of doubt a lot of people have enough friends to fill one half of a church. Mary also has multiple bridesmaids, and from what I remember, she seems to have more bridesmaids than John has groomsmen.

I don't see where John has many more friends than Mary. He's friends with Lestrade and Molly and such people who are shared friends with Sherlock, then he's got Mike Stamford and Major Sholto. If Lestrade and Stamford are the best ideas Sherlock could come up with for the best man, then I doubt John has a whole lot of close friends. According to Sherlock, a lot of John's 'friends' hate him, so unless Sherlock was very wrong I doubt that the 'anybody but Sherlock' crowd will really be at the wedding, except for possibly appearance's sake. I under the impression that most of John's side of the church was extended family and family friends.

Mary never told John he wouldn't have input on the baby's name. He, in what seemed to me a joking voice, said he would choose the baby's name by himself. Mary said no to that. Not that he wouldn't have input, but that he would not ignore her input. The one who was claiming sole right to choose the baby's name was John, not Mary.

The dialouge (from memory):
John: I choose the baby's name
Mary: Not a chance.
John: Okay.

Also, John's threatening to kill Sherlock was a joke. People say things like that when they're angry or annoyed. It may be wrong, but often it actually implies good things about the relationship, like that they're close enough that John can say that and Sherlock knows he's kidding. Of course, it doesn't sound like kidding because John is angry, but no one really believes he'd even consider hurting Sherlock, especially because Sherlock's being shot is the main reason he's angry.

SherlocklivesinOH · February 14, 2014 1:12 am

To me, the problem with this theory is how near-fatal the shooting was. It's implied Sherlock really has to fight NOT to die.

And I've said: leaving morailty out of it and considering things from the point of view of what Mary wanted, it was very STUPID (in the sense of being detrimental to her agenda) to shoot him. She's trying not to lose John...and she shoots the OTHER person John loves? She is in danger because CAM is threatening to reveal information about her past...so she shoots another person who absolutely hates CAM, will go a long way to bring him down, and will do anything to protect John Watson? (That would be Sherlock, of course.) She put him out of action, was which a good thing from CAM's point of view (and a terrible thing for the Smallwoods).

I get the sense that Sherlock may not consider her past that evil, (there are certain parallels with his own work, after all). And even if he didn't approve of it he is willing, as we see, to protect her John's sake.

Theoretically, a Mrs. Watson (well, any woman interested in John) could view Sherlock as a rival or threat to the relationship...but she was established as liking Sherlock, NOT feeling threatened, and even facilitating John and Sherlock's renewed closeness...unless it's all an act...spies do put on acts.

Willow · February 14, 2014 2:40 am

"Also, John's threatening to kill Sherlock was a joke. People say things like that when they're angry or annoyed. It may be wrong, but often it actually implies good things about the relationship, like that they're close enough that John can say that and Sherlock knows he's kidding. Of course, it doesn't sound like kidding because John is angry, but no one really believes he'd even consider hurting Sherlock, especially because Sherlock's being shot is the main reason he's angry."

It's very late on this side of the pond, so forgive if I am being overly prescriptive, but no actor on the face of the earth would construe that line as a joke. Martin certainly acts it as being a straightforward threat to kill him; there is nothing to suggest that he doesn't mean it. Equally, John's attacks on Sherlock in TEH are completely out of control; he had no difficulty in hurting Sherlock then.

It is just as well that Sherlock had phoned the ambulance himself, because John would have ignored him bleeding out whilst John was throwing a hissy fit. ..

RavenMorganLeigh · February 14, 2014 3:14 am

Willow wrote:
"Also, John's threatening to kill Sherlock was a joke. People say things like that when they're angry or annoyed. It may be wrong, but often it actually implies good things about the relationship, like that they're close enough that John can say that and Sherlock knows he's kidding. Of course, it doesn't sound like kidding because John is angry, but no one really believes he'd even consider hurting Sherlock, especially because Sherlock's being shot is the main reason he's angry."

It's very late on this side of the pond, so forgive if I am being overly prescriptive, but no actor on the face of the earth would construe that line as a joke. Martin certainly acts it as being a straightforward threat to kill him; there is nothing to suggest that he doesn't mean it. Equally, John's attacks on Sherlock in TEH are completely out of control; he had no difficulty in hurting Sherlock then.

It is just as well that Sherlock had phoned the ambulance himself, because John would have ignored him bleeding out whilst John was throwing a hissy fit. ..

YEP. And that's just so distressing, when it comes to how we're used to looking at John-- I mean, *he* was the one always harping about "being human".

besleybean · February 14, 2014 7:00 am

I think it's gallows humour.
Jiohn is genuinely furious with Sherlock and wants him to shut up and possibly at that moment go away...
But he loves him and his anger is really at Mary, poor Sherlock just gets it in the neck- again.

lil · February 14, 2014 9:42 am

At the end of Pink John says to Sherlock...Thats how you get your fix..risking your life to be clever...because your an idiot .
Sherlock seems to agree..in Vow confrontation scene Sherlock says he solves crimes as an alternative to taking drugs. So Sherlock likes the danger elements and the dangerous , clever cases.
I don't think that means he is suicidal , John likes danger too afterall, they're more adrenalin junkies.

Mary couldn't take the between the eyes certain shot..because Magnusson would have been pissed..and maybe sent those bad guys and told John.
So she took the 50/50 shot..if Sherlock died..silenced for ever..and if Sherlock lived he would be scared / threatened into silence.
Seems odd she didn't shoot Magnusson also to me which makes me think maybe they had further / other business together.

Sherlock seems to think Mary deliberatly took the shot she did and phoned the ambulance to give him the best chance of survival , he is prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt and put the best light on it..for John imo.
I think he describes it as surgery because its a cold clinical logical decision and Sherlock understand s that, Sherlock is more morally ambiguous than John.
Mary doesn't defend herself or deny Sherlocks take on it..mixed messages I know..so we don't know.

I don't think Mary had time to philosophise on teaching Sherlock a life lesson in the moments before she shot him , unless you think she had been thinking about shooting Sherlock for a while?
I wonder if maybe Sherlock did learn anything about risking his life though , because it wasn't a enemy that shot him..it was a friend, and
I think he probably saw the Smallwood/Magnusson case as a cleverest fix, rather than a life risk fix when he took it.
Somehow I doubt he will stop risking it all or getting his fix from the more dangrous cases.

Last edited by lil (February 14, 2014 9:49 am)

QuiteExtraordinary · February 14, 2014 5:41 pm

I imagine it works this way: Magnussen has an interest in keeping both Mary and Sherlock alive, because that's how his system of leverage works - Mary>John>Sherlock>Mycroft. Mary doesn't know that. She's only interested in keeping herself and her family safe, and that includes Sherlock. But he has developed a tendency to behaving like an idiot lately and is about to ruin everything. Killing Sherlock is totally out of the question for her. Just incapacitating him wouldn't solve the general problem. So she decides to teach him a lesson.
Sherlock is at first shocked and disappointed that Mary seemingly wanted to kill him. His survival instincts, or the voice of the "good" side of him, tell him to try to stay alive. The "evil" side (in the form of Moriarty) says, "why don't you just die". He's more on Moriarty's side, but in the very last second he suddenly remembers John, realises that Mary doesn't want Sherlock to die at all, and deduces how Magnussen used all three of them to get to Mycroft. So he wakes up and gets back into the game. He repairs the John-Mary-Sherlock-relationship and then tries to turn the system of leverage around, using Mycroft to protect the other half of the chain.

Last edited by QuiteExtraordinary (February 14, 2014 5:44 pm)

SolarSystem · February 14, 2014 6:21 pm

QuiteExtraordinary wrote:
He's more on Moriarty's side, but in the very last second he suddenly remembers John, realises that Mary doesn't want Sherlock to die at all, and deduces how Magnussen used all three of them to get to Mycroft. So he wakes up and gets back into the game.

Hm, but where do you see these last two points you are mentioning here in the actual episode, in the actual scene...? I see that he suddenly thinks of John, that's what makes him get up/wake up again. But what I don't see is him realizing that Mary doesn't want him to die or anything about Magnussen. Where do you see this?