BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary's Big Blunder: Shooting Sherlock Did CAM a Favor

SherlocklivesinOH · February 10, 2014 1:45 am

We've gone back and forth a lot about whether Mary is good / bad / immoral / a psychopath, but taking the morality out of it, and just looking through the eyes of Mary and what she wanted to accomplish, shooting Sherlock now looks like a colossal, and tragic, blunder (though perhaps I have the benefit of hindsight, knowing what happened afterward).

On the surface, her reason looks obvious - he caught her about to murder somebody else, but:

1) It might have been possible for Mary to escape without Sherlock recognizing her. CAM said, "not Lady Smallwood," but he didn't say the name. Sherlock only recognized Mary when she turned to face him to shoot him.

2) Assuming he was going to know it was her - given what we have actually seen Sherlock do, combined with his hatred of CAM, I think he would have covered up for her - either because he actually thought she was justified, but at the very least, for John's sake. (I hope covering up for her wouldn't involve framing Janine, but I could see it as a possibility.) Sherlock did actually say to Mary: "Let me help you."

From Sherlock's and John's points of view, shooting Sherlock is worse than killing CAM or anything she's done in the past. So she handed them a bigger reason not to help her, than they would have had previously. They did end up forgiving her, but she couldn't have taken that for granted.

And there are a lot of other people out there who would really love CAM to be gone, and who wouldn't necessarsily want former CIA operatives dead or in jail, but who would be less happy about Sherlock Holmes being injured or killed (i.e., Lady Smallwood). In other words, Mary kind of turned herself into more of a bad guy.

3) The shooting put Sherlock out of action, giving CAM more time to torture his victims without Sherlock Holmes bothering him...by the time Sherlock is back in action, it's too late for the Smallwoods (giving Lady S less of a reason to help Mary, when she might have helped CAM's murderer.)

Now, is it possible that CAM's begging Mary for his life was all an act, and the whole thing was set up so she could shoot Sherlock under CAM's orders? I don't REALLY think so. It seems right now that she genuine hated CAM and wouldn't hurt John if it wasn't absolutely necessary, but I don't think we've "gotten to the bottom" of her yet.

I could see CAM taking advantage of "owning" someone like Mary to get her to do...jobs for him....but on the other hand it would be risky from CAM's point of view since he would be alone with someone who would like to be free of being "owned" and who had a gun.

Since CAM mentions "people he knows," I wonder if he anticipated the possibility of something happening to him (whether he tried to use Mary as his own assassin or not) and had somebody waiting in the wings to do something to Mary (or other victims) if so.

Last edited by SherlocklivesinOH (February 10, 2014 1:46 am)

RavenMorganLeigh · February 10, 2014 1:50 am

SherlocklivesinOH wrote:
We've gone back and forth a lot about whether Mary is good / bad / immoral / a psychopath, but taking the morality out of it, and just looking through the eyes of Mary and what she wanted to accomplish, shooting Sherlock now looks like a colossal, and tragic, blunder (though perhaps I have the benefit of hindsight, knowing what happened afterward).

On the surface, her reason looks obvious - he caught her about to murder somebody else, but:

1) It might have been possible for Mary to escape without Sherlock recognizing her. CAM said, "not Lady Smallwood," but he didn't say the name. Sherlock only recognized Mary when she turned to face him to shoot him.

2) Assuming he was going to know it was her - given what we have actually seen Sherlock do, combined with his hatred of CAM, I think he would have covered up for her - either because he actually thought she was justified, but at the very least, for John's sake. (I hope covering up for her wouldn't involve framing Janine, but I could see it as a possibility.) Sherlock did actually say to Mary: "Let me help you."

From Sherlock's and John's points of view, shooting Sherlock is worse than killing CAM or anything she's done in the past. So she handed them a bigger reason not to help her, than they would have had previously. They did end up forgiving her, but she couldn't have taken that for granted.

And there are a lot of other people out there who would really love CAM to be gone, and who wouldn't necessarsily want former CIA operatives dead or in jail, but who would be less happy about Sherlock Holmes being injured or killed (i.e., Lady Smallwood). In other words, Mary kind of turned herself into more of a bad guy.

3) The shooting put Sherlock out of action, giving CAM more time to torture his victims without Sherlock Holmes bothering him...by the time Sherlock is back in action, it's too late for the Smallwoods (giving Lady S less of a reason to help Mary, when she might have helped CAM's murderer.)

Now, is it possible that CAM's begging Mary for his life was all an act, and the whole thing was set up so she could shoot Sherlock under CAM's orders? I don't REALLY think so. It seems right now that she genuine hated CAM and wouldn't hurt John if it wasn't absolutely necessary, but I don't think we've "gotten to the bottom" of her yet.

I could see CAM taking advantage of "owning" someone like Mary to get her to do...jobs for him....but on the other hand it would be risky from CAM's point of view since he would be alone with someone who would like to be free of being "owned" and who had a gun.

Since CAM mentions "people he knows," I wonder if he anticipated the possibility of something happening to him (whether he tried to use Mary as his own assassin or not) and had somebody waiting in the wings to do something to Mary (or other victims) if so.

We really need "Like" buttons, this is an angle I hadn't thought of.

I think you're right though, she may have inadvertently caused more harm than good-- and if so, what does that actually say about her character? She shot someone who would have helped her. Ouch.

lil · February 10, 2014 5:35 am

Yes interesting idea. Such a coincidence they all break in exactly same time.
I've wondered a few times...if just kill any innocent bystanders/witness's would actually be something gov. agents would do.
Especially when escape unrecognised wld surely be possible.
Cos thats not much of a coverup/exit plan, multiple murders mean more attention than one...
Also I wondered why after shooting Sherlock and knocking magnusson out..why she didn't put the gun into magnussons hand. Framing him for the shooting.
I do realise Sherlock would remember..and magnusson cld still inform John/badguys etc. on her.
But he wld be less threat/easier target while in prison...of course she also cld of hit magnusson hard enough that he didn't remember much of anything.
And as Magnusson owns Mary..if she knew Sherlock was., breaking in, shouldn't she of told Magnusson that, or..he wld be cross and maybe tell John blahs.

It is strange how she doesn't just leave..or deal with Magnusson which one assumes is why she went.
Would only have taken seconds.
And if she did get the memory stick from cam..idk if she wld worry about his sources so much, they haven't bothered her so far, so why wld they after Magnussons death.
Idk maybe thinking on it too much and it's the just tv thing.
But could well be more to her "inaction" of Magnusson.
If it was a setup to somehow get/shoot Sherlock...why?
Was it a test for Mycroft , in the way they plotted the bonfire test with John for Sherlock?

And yes I definitely think Magnussons dead man switch is now aiming@mary@co.

Last edited by lil (February 10, 2014 5:43 am)

This Is The Phantom Lady · February 10, 2014 10:50 am

I can't help thinking that Magnussen set the whole thing off and perhaps if Mary had not shot Sherlock she would have been killed herself? So that's why she shot Sherlock? So that John wouldn't have to deal with another loss?

zeratul · February 10, 2014 11:19 am

If Mary was really about to kill CAM, she would have done it, if there hadn't been Lady Smallwood asking Sherlock for help.
But I also tend to think that it was a trap, what do we say about coincidences? (The universe is rarely so lazy.) Well maybe Mary and CAM did this together to get Sherlock out of the way, but the way she reacts on the wedding telegram, I think CAM made Mary to do so. CAM obviously knows about the perfume and it would be strange if Mary put that on to break in and murder someone by accident.
Maybe she phones the ambulance because she regretted what she just did, as she says, she is sorry... Well CAM wants to get Mycroft through Sherlock, but still Sherlock is really getting in the way, as he tries to help Lady Smallwood.
I wonder if there will be anything on this on the next series or if we are just left with those facts.

SolarSystem · February 10, 2014 11:51 am

Swanpride wrote:
You can just as well say that Sherlock did a blunder by breaking into the office without a real plan (what did he expect to find there?). If he hadn't turned up, Mary could have done her job.

If I remember correctly, Sherlock expected to find the letters.
And right, damn Sherlock, he screwed everything up and it was probably his own fault that he got shot.

zeratul · February 10, 2014 12:43 pm

I still rather think it was a trap. At least from CAM, as he gave Sherlock a wrong schedule through Janine (she may not have been involved by this).

Btw when Janine said "OK, you two bad boys, behave yourselves" it soundet very "acting" to me. But I am not sure if it was meant that way or just sounded this way? So maybe she knew sth. or was in on it??

SherlocklivesinOH · February 10, 2014 7:48 pm

There are good reasons why the "trap" idea is implausible...my point is just that Mary did her cause more harm than good: especially if Mary's desperation came largely from not wanting to lose/hurt John, why attack the OTHER person who would also do anything for John Watson (and who hates CAM as much as she does), and thereby make it harder for Sherlock to help her, for months, and give him, John, and others who are potential allies a bigger reason to view her (Mary) as the bad guy?

lil · February 10, 2014 8:31 pm

Her primary objective was to prevent John discovering her lies, she blundered twice.
Sherlock didn't die, and informed John.
Magnusson didn't die, but could of informed John.

Magnusson should of been so annoyed at her trying to kill him..he told John anyway.
Magnusson doesn't need Mary anymore unless he has another use for her?
The way to Mycroft has been established as Sherlock.
Mary isn't on eithers pressure point list, and Magnusson no longer needs Mary to get at John. (Post bonfire plot)
She takes a big risk assuming Magnusson still has use for her and won't tell...unless she knows more than we do, which obviously they do, which I think is a main question of the thread.

Willow · February 10, 2014 9:22 pm

lil wrote:
Her primary objective was to prevent John discovering her lies, she blundered twice.
Sherlock didn't die, and informed John.
Magnusson didn't die, but could of informed John.

Magnusson should of been so annoyed at her trying to kill him..he told John anyway.
Magnusson doesn't need Mary anymore unless he has another use for her?
The way to Mycroft has been established as Sherlock.
Mary isn't on eithers pressure point list, and Magnusson no longer needs Mary to get at John. (Post bonfire plot)
She takes a big risk assuming Magnusson still has use for her and won't tell...unless she knows more than we do, which obviously they do, which I think is a main question of the thread.

Yes; quite obviously there is more than we know already because Magnussen must have been pretty unhappy at seeing his route to Mycroft endangered. It is difficult to explain why he doesn't throw her to the wolves, by way of an object lesson to others he is threatening, unless he has some continuing use for her. The original Canon CAM does explain that exposing people who do not pay up is very useful in persuading others to comply with his demands; from what we know of this CAM he is certainly capable of ruthless behaviour so we can delete altruism from his possible motives.

That leaves us with yet more unanswered questions; it suggests, however, that Mary had some relationship with CAM which goes beyond the one we think we know. After all, if she was going to shoot anyone it would be CAM; he is the person blackmailing her and in shooting Sherlock she has simply given CAM yet more grounds for blackmailing her. I appreciate that she may indeed be in love with John, but that would not prevent her enemies from coming after her; given that she had just shot her husband's closest friend they would feel all the more justified in taking her out, because it's yet more evidence that she really is a psychopath whose only interest is getting what she wants.

So why do the one thing which could render her worthless to CAM, and thus be set up as a salutary example to anyone who messes with him? It only makes sense if she is performing a role which CAM has an interest in, or has set up, and wishes her to continue...

SherlocklivesinOH · February 10, 2014 11:01 pm

Willow wrote:

That leaves us with yet more unanswered questions; it suggests, however, that Mary had some relationship with CAM which goes beyond the one we think we know.

...and let's not forget that he sent her a wedding telegram...though I can also see him employing that strategy for his "victims" in general...to remind them that he has something on them.

lil · February 11, 2014 12:06 am

Swanpride wrote:
He can't throw Mary to the wolves because the moment he exposes her, he no longer has leverage over Sherlock...considering that the only way to get something on Mycroft was going over three persons, it would be idiotic to play his best card too early. And he wouldn't tell John either in case that Sherlock decides that John shouldn't know, no matter what.

Post shooting...
Magnusson is dealing with Sherlock directly now, Sherlock meets Magnusson in the hospital canteen and makes a deal....
So why not...?
What further use does he have for Mary?

And pre Shooting...Mary was useful for using John to find Sherlocks pulse point. After Magnusson does the bonfire thing..he has Sherlocks pulse point.
Mary is not a pulse point for Sherlock, or Mycroft....

Would Sherlock hand Mycroft and the country over to Magnusson to protect Mary's secrets from John? I don't think so.Neither does Magnusson.

So why for months and months after Mary had him on his knees , begging for his life, shot then nearly killed a person vital to his plans...and then bashed his head in.....is Magnusson still keeping Mary's secrets?
He does have plenty of other faces to flick...
So maybe there's more to it?
As we are discussing.

Willow · February 11, 2014 1:12 am

Swanpride wrote:
He can't throw Mary to the wolves because the moment he exposes her, he no longer has leverage over Sherlock...considering that the only way to get something on Mycroft was going over three persons, it would be idiotic to play his best card too early. And he wouldn't tell John either in case that Sherlock decides that John shouldn't know, no matter what.

But he hasn't got any leverage over Sherlock because a dying Sherlock destroys all chances of CAM to get Mycroft under his thumb; CAMs plan was always directed to Mycroft. You cannot seriously be suggesting that someone who has just destroyed a lengthy plan whereby CaM could get the most important man in Britain under his thumb, or, at the very least, forced to resign, could be regarded as his best card.

Card for what?

No Sherlock=no Mycroft; CAM has absolutely no need any cards at all, because the game has been ended by Mary shooting Sherlock.

Which is why it's seriously weird that he did not throw her to the wolves, and the only logical reason for this is that she was involved in something he had set up...

Tinks · February 11, 2014 8:06 am

Has anyone got any theories as to why there seemed to be no investigation into who shot Sherlock?
Lestrade, Mycroft - neither of them were interested in following it up?
Seems strange that they were happy to sweep it under the carpet.

This Is The Phantom Lady · February 11, 2014 8:15 am

I did think about it; but maybe Lestrade trusted Sherlock's judgement so much that he was sure there was no hope of figuring it out if not even Sherlock could?

I honestly don't know but it all seems a bit 'off' to me.

Tinks · February 11, 2014 10:57 am

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:
I did think about it; but maybe Lestrade trusted Sherlock's judgement so much that he was sure there was no hope of figuring it out if not even Sherlock could?

I honestly don't know but it all seems a bit 'off' to me.

One of the things that we need to presume was dealt with and put aside during Sherlock's recovery period I suppose.

Willow · February 11, 2014 3:17 pm

Swanpride wrote:
If Magnusson reveals Mary's secret at this point, he destroys her life and perhaps John and Sherlock's - but after that, there is nothing he can do to them, therefore no leverage over Mycroft.

If he waits and Sherlock dies, he has still time to talk. Perhaps he can even use the information who the shooter was to get something from Mycroft.

If he waits and Sherlock survives, Sherlock will either turn on Mary (the worst outcome for Magnusson), or he will try protect her, meaning that Magnusson has him finally firmly under his thumb.

If he tells John he can't win anything, because in this situation (and especially if Sherlock dies) John would most likely turn on Mary immediately.

All this aside, it is simply Magnusson's MO to keep information to himself until he decides to use them.

Disclosing Mary's past is not going to destroy John or Sherlock; why should it? It gives him the opportunity to start over, with the knowledge that John is Sherlock's pressure point, and no loose cannon killer around who might be lining his head up in her sights. He's seen what she's done to somebody she was allegedly fond of; there can be no conceivable reason for him to risk his own life when a quick phone call would take a killer off his back. Unless, that is, Mary has a role which we are, as yet, unaware of.

Incidentally, there is no chance that Mycroft would give him anything; why should he? Mycroft knew who shot Sherlock as soon as he went AWOL from hospital, if not considerably before, and Mycroft has wanted CAM's hide for a long time. Mycroft doesn't make free gifts to his enemies...

SherlocklivesinOH · February 11, 2014 9:46 pm

Willow wrote:
Mycroft has wanted CAM's hide for a long time. Mycroft doesn't make free gifts to his enemies...

Actually, Mycroft tried to discourage Sherlock's crusade against CAM, and kind of minimized what CAM was doing. It's CAM who wants Mycroft in HIS power.