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January 31, 2014 9:26 pm  #1


I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

I have suddenly realised that I had not noticed this on previous viewings but it seems significant; as always thanks are due to Ariane DeVere and her transcripts on her Livejournal.

In the restaurant John launches into his attempt to propose with:

JOHN: Er, so ... Mary. Listen, erm ... I know it hasn’t been long ... I mean, I know we haven’t known each other for a long time ...

So how long have they known each other? When did Mary come into his life? Is this simply an echo to Sherlock's impending actions in HLV, or is Mary a recent arrival on the scene? I should welcome opinions, particularly since we are not going to find the answer until the next season

 

January 31, 2014 9:35 pm  #2


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

I am just thinking of the mini episode. The flat where John watches the birthday video seems to be the same they are living in now, the living-room we see at the beginning of HLV. If I remember correctly the door bell is ringing while John is watching the video and he gets up to open the door. It might be Mary. Why would she ring the bell when they are living together? Of course there might be other reasons for this - forgotten key, carrying heavy bags, etc. 
And how much time passes between the mini episode and TEH? Six months? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 31, 2014 9:40 pm  #3


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Well, it's shorter than two years. I'd consider two years pretty short to propose someone but people are different. 

 

January 31, 2014 9:52 pm  #4


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

I think it must be shorter. I do not see John getting into a relationship very soon after Sherlock's death. I suppose he needed some time before he was ready for such a commitment. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 31, 2014 9:57 pm  #5


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

SusiGo wrote:

I am just thinking of the mini episode. The flat where John watches the birthday video seems to be the same they are living in now, the living-room we see at the beginning of HLV. If I remember correctly the door bell is ringing while John is watching the video and he gets up to open the door. It might be Mary. Why would she ring the bell when they are living together? Of course there might be other reasons for this - forgotten key, carrying heavy bags, etc. 
And how much time passes between the mini episode and TEH? Six months? 

Great catch!

But we see Greg visiting John in that flat with the box of stuff which he hadn't had the heart to throw away, including the birthday DVD, and there's no mention of Mary. You would think that if John were living with someone at that time Greg would have said something about it, even if it's along the lines of 'How's Mary?' Or 'Where's Mary?'

That would have been an amazing teaser in the mini episode; it would have driven the fans wild, so I'm assuming that they would not have omitted it if it fitted into the time scale.

So, now we have to establish what the time scale was
 

     Thread Starter
 

January 31, 2014 10:01 pm  #6


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

I do not remember every detail. Can we deduce something about the time of year? Weather?
Judging John's reaction to the video I would say that some time has passed, at least a year. Shortly after Sherlock's death his reaction would have been different and maybe Lestrade would not have brought him the DVD. Moreover, Anderson has already been sacked and founded the Empty Hearse. And Sherlock has been to the Buddhist monastery, India, and Germany. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 31, 2014 10:27 pm  #7


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

I'm guessing he's known Mary about a year. A bit short to ask someone to marry them, which is why John says that to Mary about the fact that they haven't know each other long, but long enough to know that you definitely love someone. Also that means John would have had a year to grieve, and then start to move on. I think anything less than a year  would be a bit too rash to propose. Though I know some people do get married quicker.

But yeah, that's my personal deduction.

Last edited by SpiralStaircase (January 31, 2014 10:28 pm)


 

January 31, 2014 10:34 pm  #8


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Mary also states that she had to kiss John with his moustache for six months, right? In the Minisode he doesn't have a moustache yet, so the question also would be: when did he start to grow the moustache? Before he knew Mary?


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

January 31, 2014 10:36 pm  #9


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Good point, Solar. Either that or he got the wild idea that she might like the moustache later. My idea is that they have not known each other for more than a year. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

January 31, 2014 10:54 pm  #10


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

For some reason I had in my head that they'd known each other for 6 months - don't know where I got that from!


"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles
 

January 31, 2014 11:30 pm  #11


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Well, the part of the mini episode set in London is all shot in good weather; definitely not winter but maybe late spring through to August/September; Lestrade's double take at 'The Game is Back on' shown on the sports page has a picture of footballers, which might work for August but not spring.

It's definitely the same house as HLV, but looking at it again I'm puzzled by yet another thing; I get the cold, empty, almost sterile atmosphere of the room we see in the mini-episode as a total contrast to Baker St, and I can imagine John wanting to  live in it as a total contrast to the atmosphere in Baker St. What I don't get is why it's still a cold, empty, almost sterile place after they have married.

I am endeavouring to avoid facile generalisations about women creating warm and cosy homes, but it does seem odd that it looks just the same; no books, no pictures, no flowers and so forth. It doesn't look like a home.

Of course, this may be simply my own personality, and my excuse for the extraordinary amount of clutter I manage to accumulate, notwithstanding the fact that I live in the brutalist architecture of the Barbican, but it puzzles me. Has anyone spotted what I have missed in this?

     Thread Starter
 

February 2, 2014 2:10 pm  #12


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

More than six months if Mary's words in The Empty Hears is to make any sense. I the scene where John is about to shave she says: "I get six months of bristly kisses, then his nibs turns up..." So it has to be at least six months, and somewhat shorter than two years.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing.

An apostrophe makes the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
 

February 2, 2014 3:09 pm  #13


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Ormond, completely off topic, but: I absolutely love your "An apostrophe..." sig! Brilliant!


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

February 2, 2014 4:00 pm  #14


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

We have got John's blog and Mary's comment on it. Maybe John met Mary at this very point of time because Mary proposed to meet for drinks and it's April the 20th. I imagine that John met Mary and fell in love with her and found the strength to decide that a new chapter of his life should begin. That's why he started to write the blog again. Ella Thompson comments and affirms him to write.
When Sherlock returns around the 5th of November Mary's comment about six month is correct when it comes to knowing each other. But on the 5th of October there was no moustache in Many Happy Returns. Can you grow a moustache in just a month? It looks quite long already.
Either the blog is wrong, Mary is wrong with six month of bristly kisses or there is more than a year between Many Happy Returns and The Empty Hearse. Maybe Mary and John met each other through work and the relationship and kissing started later six month before Sherlock's return. If there is no hidden year somewhere Sherlock returned after 17 months.
Why does everybody talk about two years then?
We can choose between we are missing some information or the writers made a mistake.
What do you think?

 

February 2, 2014 6:50 pm  #15


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

Thread highjack

@Solar. Thanks. It's something I saw circling Tumblr a while back and I decided to adopt it, both because it's true and because lack of apostrophe is in my opinion the single most annoying trend in modern written English as well as the most destructive to understanding. I don't expect the Queen's English or anything, I am fairly fluent in typoese. I'm a non-native myself, the Oxford comma is completely beyond me and I am apparently allegic to the use of questionmarks, but I trip up every time an apostrophe is missing. It's the one thing I can get vehement about.
 
End thread hijack

@Be. Yes you can go a fairly satisfactory moustache in a month, just look at that whole Movember silliness. (Okay odd thought, was it this that gave John the idea for a 'stache in the first place?)
Everyone is talking about two years because that is how long John says Sherlock hs been "dead" in the reunion scene.

As for myself I am going with "the writers made a mistake". After all, it wouldn't be the first time that happened.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it nice not being me? It must be so relaxing.

An apostrophe makes the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.
 

February 27, 2014 8:13 pm  #16


Re: I know we haven't known each other for a long time...

SusiGo wrote:

I am just thinking of the mini episode. The flat where John watches the birthday video seems to be the same they are living in now, the living-room we see at the beginning of HLV. If I remember correctly the door bell is ringing while John is watching the video and he gets up to open the door. It might be Mary. Why would she ring the bell when they are living together? Of course there might be other reasons for this - forgotten key, carrying heavy bags, etc. 
And how much time passes between the mini episode and TEH? Six months? 

 
Well john could have lived in that flat without Mary. He does say to mrs Hudson about not being able to come back and visit baker st bc it's too hard so he moved out quickly I'd say.

He could've moved right into that flat and then whenever Mary and he got together she moved in. They don't has to have picked out a place together. Makes just as much sense for one to move into the other place instead of both leaving their places and getting a new one together.

We also don't know when they started co habitating- yeah? Or did I miss that. I think the only timeline given was Mary saying about kissing the mustache for 6 months, as others stated.

And speaking of the Stache. It needs its own mini episode- the backstory.




How can you even form a sentence to reply when this ^^^ is in your face? 


 

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