You really think he would have done everything he's done only to "placate" mary. Seems far-fechted to me.
Why can't you just take it at it is and admit he may just like Mary? My biggest wish for S04 is that the show moves on on the Mary's case, actually. I really prefer the Moriarty case ( him being dead or alive)

Harriet wrote:

You started a thread in April asking for motivations of disliking Mary and you got lots of kind and honest replies that had nothing to do Johnlock (mine among others). Why can't you accept that? Why do you insist on a construct that is not supported by people here on this board?

Just a quick answer...the problem is, as you said, the "supporting" part. You can discuss ( I mean, really discuss) with a supporter, it always fizzles. And most of the time, i don't insist.

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:

You really think he would have done everything he's done only to "placate" mary. Seems far-fechted to me.
Why can't you just take it at it is and admit he may just like Mary?

Not just placate. I said he wants to buy time because he feels he is going to collapse and has to find a quick solution for the time being. 

For me the whole scene simply does not work if you take it face value. Sherlock has always been on the side of the angels, even if he himself sometimes employs morally grey means to reach his aims (like drugging John in HoB). Even if he forgave Mary that she nearly killed him there is still what she did to John. She betrayed John, she presented him with a persona that does not exist, with friends and made-up past, she made him marry a facade. Their marriage probably is not even valid. 
John is completely out of his mind with rage and disappointment rightly so. And what does Sherlock do? Persuade him that it is fine, that this is what he wanted, that he is attracted to people who do such things (which is bullshit if you ask me because Sherlock never betrayed John for his own ends). If he did not want John to mistrust Mary, why reveal her as the shooter? He could have gone along with her wish and kept quiet. But he does want John to know what kind of person he married.

So, yes, I cannot take it face value. I cannot believe that John just likes her and wants John to stay with her and be a happy husband. And I am sure that Mary will play an important part in series 4, that this is far from over. And from what I read many people regard Mary as the true cliffhanger and not the Moriarty re-appearance. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (October 6, 2014 7:46 am)

What do you mean by that?

Oh, what can I say then? If you don't acknowledge what people here actually said and imply that there is not a fair discussion here, there is nothing left to say for me as well. Except for I'm sorry that you see it that way.

I agree. But this does still imply that he regards her as a threat instead of liking her and therefore excusing her actions.

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:

If you say so... ( see above for me not  wanting to tilt at windmills...)

You know, if you really hadn't wanted to tilt at windmills, you could have just not posted the comment that started it... Just saying.

Just one word as a mod: This thread is not a discussion about Johnlock. It is about things we want to see in series 4 or not. Naturally Mary came up as a subject because she is an important and controversial character. Please note that it was not the Johnlockers who brought this into the discussion. If someone introduces a controversial issue, they must accept that others will disagree. This was probably what Schmiezi wanted to point out and not to censor anyone. 

 

Yeah, it really didn't seem like you to be censoring people. I guess I was being sensitive, I really hate it when people do that. And I know what you mean by 'I don't mean to offend but...'. And being offended can just be as manipulative. 

Silverblaze, in the end I think we all are suffering from other people outside this forum behaving like idiots when discussing Johnlock and / or Mary. That influences the way some members behave here. Some feel attacked by "Johnlockers" for no reason (other that there are very annoying Johnlockers out there but not here), some feel censored, some tend to use generalisations that may be fitting e.g. on tumblr not not here.

The point I am trying to make (and oh how I wish I was a native speaker ) is that the debate culture here is a lot better than out there. We should all make it remain that way.

I agree, tonnaree - that´d be horrible and I´d certainly be devastated by it. And it would probably also be the last thing I´d expect..