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October 6, 2014 7:11 am  #161


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Yes, but being an adrenaline junkie and knowingly marrying a killer for that reason is not quite the same thing. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 6, 2014 7:30 am  #162


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

You really think he would have done everything he's done only to "placate" mary. Seems far-fechted to me.
Why can't you just take it at it is and admit he may just like Mary? My biggest wish for S04 is that the show moves on on the Mary's case, actually. I really prefer the Moriarty case ( him being dead or alive)

Harriet wrote:

You started a thread in April asking for motivations of disliking Mary and you got lots of kind and honest replies that had nothing to do Johnlock (mine among others). Why can't you accept that? Why do you insist on a construct that is not supported by people here on this board?

Just a quick answer...the problem is, as you said, the "supporting" part. You can discuss ( I mean, really discuss) with a supporter, it always fizzles. And most of the time, i don't insist.

 

October 6, 2014 7:39 am  #163


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

No. The problem is imho, that you don't seem to acknowledge the people who are actually here and offered your their insights.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 6, 2014 7:43 am  #164


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:

You really think he would have done everything he's done only to "placate" mary. Seems far-fechted to me.
Why can't you just take it at it is and admit he may just like Mary?

Not just placate. I said he wants to buy time because he feels he is going to collapse and has to find a quick solution for the time being. 

For me the whole scene simply does not work if you take it face value. Sherlock has always been on the side of the angels, even if he himself sometimes employs morally grey means to reach his aims (like drugging John in HoB). Even if he forgave Mary that she nearly killed him there is still what she did to John. She betrayed John, she presented him with a persona that does not exist, with friends and made-up past, she made him marry a facade. Their marriage probably is not even valid. 
John is completely out of his mind with rage and disappointment rightly so. And what does Sherlock do? Persuade him that it is fine, that this is what he wanted, that he is attracted to people who do such things (which is bullshit if you ask me because Sherlock never betrayed John for his own ends). If he did not want John to mistrust Mary, why reveal her as the shooter? He could have gone along with her wish and kept quiet. But he does want John to know what kind of person he married.

So, yes, I cannot take it face value. I cannot believe that John just likes her and wants John to stay with her and be a happy husband. And I am sure that Mary will play an important part in series 4, that this is far from over. And from what I read many people regard Mary as the true cliffhanger and not the Moriarty re-appearance. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (October 6, 2014 7:46 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 6, 2014 7:44 am  #165


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

If you say so... ( see above for me not  wanting to tilt at windmills...)

 

October 6, 2014 7:47 am  #166


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

What do you mean by that?


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 6, 2014 7:56 am  #167


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Harriet wrote:

What do you mean by that?

No, i'll just stop, willingly.  It's pointless and is nothing like a constructive discussion.

 

October 6, 2014 7:58 am  #168


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Oh, what can I say then? If you don't acknowledge what people here actually said and imply that there is not a fair discussion here, there is nothing left to say for me as well. Except for I'm sorry that you see it that way.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 6, 2014 8:06 am  #169


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

I don't think Sherlock could have kept quiet.  Mary had shown that she was prepared to kill him, her name is the first word he says when he regains consciousness (and Mary is the first person we see too), she seems to be threatening to kill him again, and he is in an extremely vulnerable place in hospital with a killer nurse who could easily find a way of bumping him off.  

Telling John is the only way to remove the risk to Sherlock from Mary (because once John knows, Mary loses her reason to have to kill Sherlock), and it's urgent, and has to be done in a safe and controlled way.  If Sherlock had just told John without involving Mary, then Mary could have convinced John otherwise, whilst quietly killing off Sherlock in hospital so he couldn't argue further.   I think Sherlock realises that he doesn't have a choice, hence almost risking his life with that elaborate plan. 

 

October 6, 2014 8:08 am  #170


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

I agree. But this does still imply that he regards her as a threat instead of liking her and therefore excusing her actions.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 6, 2014 8:09 am  #171


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

The plan went slightly awry at shooting CAM and I still wonder if that will come back to bite Sherlock...not least because of Mycroft warning  him to stay away.
Susi, we cross posted.
Yes, we won't really know til next time around.

Last edited by besleybean (October 6, 2014 8:12 am)


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October 6, 2014 12:43 pm  #172


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

NatureNoHumansNo wrote:

If you say so... ( see above for me not  wanting to tilt at windmills...)

You know, if you really hadn't wanted to tilt at windmills, you could have just not posted the comment that started it... Just saying. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 6, 2014 1:37 pm  #173


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Schmiezi, you're a nice woman but censoring people who think different is really not ok. I hope you didn't mean it that way. 

About the johnlock mary thing, I don't think johnlockers hate Mary just because of their ship, but when I was in all the Mary discussion it did seem to me that people who disliked Mary the most were also johnlockers and the people who were kinda okay with her were not. Maybe not everyone conformed to that pattern but I think it's there. I think that it's because of this, it's not because johnlockers hate Mary because of their ship, but because for them it's easier to hate Mary for other reasons than for nonlockers. I think nonlockers may have gotten more attached to Mary in ep one and two, so it's harder for them to suddenly start disliking her after the evil Moffat twist. 

 

October 6, 2014 1:54 pm  #174


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Just one word as a mod: This thread is not a discussion about Johnlock. It is about things we want to see in series 4 or not. Naturally Mary came up as a subject because she is an important and controversial character. Please note that it was not the Johnlockers who brought this into the discussion. If someone introduces a controversial issue, they must accept that others will disagree. This was probably what Schmiezi wanted to point out and not to censor anyone. 

 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

http://up.picr.de/28609194so.png

 
 

October 6, 2014 1:55 pm  #175


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

No, of course I didn't, silverblaze. It's just that working with difficult teenagers I have made one observation. It's that when they say things like "I don't want to offend you, but ..." they normally DO want to offend you. IMO it's the same thing NatureNoHumansNo is doing in this thread. Saying "I don't want to tilt windmills, but ..." just sounds a lot like (s)he wanted to exactly that.

Maybe I am a bit touchy when it comes to being accused of something just because in the deep of my romantic heart I hope John and Sherlock will end happy together, having lots and lots of cuddles and fulfilling sex. I don't hate to have Mary on the show, but I love to write about my point of view. (Which, BTW I usually clearly mark as my point of view by using expressions like IMO, but that's another matter.)

Starting a discussion the way NatureNoHumansNo did, and then stop it by stating several times that she does not "want to tilt windmills" is not very polite, I think, and that really bothers me.

BUT to return to the topic, the four things I don't want to see in S4 are:

1. Moriarty being alive
2. Mycroft dying
3. John being too weak
4. Baby Watson dying

Last edited by Schmiezi (October 6, 2014 2:12 pm)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 6, 2014 2:15 pm  #176


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Yeah, it really didn't seem like you to be censoring people. I guess I was being sensitive, I really hate it when people do that. And I know what you mean by 'I don't mean to offend but...'. And being offended can just be as manipulative. 

 

October 6, 2014 2:33 pm  #177


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

The people who manage to never take offence and never inadvertently cause it are a rare breed on internet forums, and I applaud them .   Sadly I'm not one of them.  I wish I was.  I can aspire, though .

Anyway ... I'd hate to say that I'd want baby Watson to die, but a baby is such a huge game-changing commitment.  They'd be stuck with baby Watson for years, not just the baby period.  I have more thoughts on that that probably belong on Baby's own thread.

 

October 6, 2014 2:37 pm  #178


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

Silverblaze, in the end I think we all are suffering from other people outside this forum behaving like idiots when discussing Johnlock and / or Mary. That influences the way some members behave here. Some feel attacked by "Johnlockers" for no reason (other that there are very annoying Johnlockers out there but not here), some feel censored, some tend to use generalisations that may be fitting e.g. on tumblr not not here.

The point I am trying to make (and oh how I wish I was a native speaker http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/stoned.png
) is that the debate culture here is a lot better than out there. We should all make it remain that way.


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I still believe that love conquers all!

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/f78f2088-06ef-444c-b254-d9efa841bc19_zps435390b3.png      http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q666/Schmiezi/140545df-e987-4a67-9272-fa8b2742790c_zpsa8b00ed8.png

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

October 6, 2014 3:09 pm  #179


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

I may be an aggresive johnlocker but I do truely try to not be annoying.

Now topic:  I'm going to try reverse phsychology on Mofftis

4 things I absolutely do NOT want to see in S4.

* John's scar.
* John seeing Sherlock's scars
* John moving back in to 221b
* A nod to The Three  Garridebs

(wink wink nudge nudge)


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"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
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October 6, 2014 3:17 pm  #180


Re: Four things I would prefer NOT to see in series 4

I agree, tonnaree - that´d be horrible and I´d certainly be devastated by it. And it would probably also be the last thing I´d expect.. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

 

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