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January 19, 2014 8:59 pm  #1


Sherlock from Serbia

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Dear Sherlock fans, I am Michael and I am from Serbia. My friend talked me into watching Sherlock and I was amayed by the series. I used to say that no one is better than Jeremy Brett but I must admit Benedict Cumberbatch is great. Cant wait to see the next season


'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'
 

January 19, 2014 9:03 pm  #2


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Welcome, Michael, look around and have fun. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

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“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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January 19, 2014 9:08 pm  #3


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Welcome, Michael - I needed to think a moment about the title of your introduction, though


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January 19, 2014 9:12 pm  #4


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

LOL I should have written sth else http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/cool.png
  Thank u for the warm welcome

Last edited by Henry de Montherlant (January 19, 2014 9:13 pm)


'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'
     Thread Starter
 

January 19, 2014 9:30 pm  #5


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Welcome!  I'm really glad there is a Serbian fan here, as I've been wondering about the Serbian spoken in The Empty Hearse.  There was a lot of discussion about how the German that was spoken in previous series was not accurate or authentic.  So can you please say something about the Serbian spoken by the characters in TEH: Is is correct or not?  Thanks.


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January 20, 2014 9:39 am  #6


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Yea, my wife and I were very surprised to hear Serbian in Sherlock : ) Ive just played the episode again. The language is ok although with an accent which is not usually heard in Belgrade or in Serbia in general. My guess would be that the accent is from eastern parts of Croatia, maybe Bosnia or The Republika Srpska, it is hard to tell because it sounds like the actor has some kind of minor speech defect. As for Mycroft - he is not bad at all

Last edited by Henry de Montherlant (January 20, 2014 9:40 am)


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January 20, 2014 11:08 am  #7


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Hello and welcome to the forum!


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January 20, 2014 6:19 pm  #8


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Thank you, Henry!  It's good to know the show did its homework.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png


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Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.  -- Helen Keller
 

January 20, 2014 8:33 pm  #9


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Welcome to the forum!  Thanks for the information about TEH. 

 

January 21, 2014 12:19 am  #10


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iZTguITfzHc/T02FhlNib_I/AAAAAAAAAT8/7Zn-KkecUjU/s1600/Smiley-Wave.gif


'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.'
     Thread Starter
 

January 21, 2014 6:56 pm  #11


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Welcome!


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March 5, 2015 3:18 am  #12


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Sorry for necro. I was just rewatching the series, and I'm at the "Empty Hearse" now, and I laughed so hard (again) at the part where they spoke Serbian, so I searched a bit to see if any comments on that, and this is only topic I've found.  Just wanted to give a comment. I am from Republika Srpska for the record, since OP said it might be our accent. Just to point out: Serbo-Croatian (SCBM) = Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosniak/Bosnian language, all mutually intelligible almost 99.99% - vocabulary, accent, and pronounciation differences might come from different regions within the same country, not necessarily from other country or their language version.
I am going to talk about the Tomi May's (actor that acts Serbian torturer) Serbian. His Serbian is pretty inconsistent. He uses ekavijan pronunciation. It is almost exclusively used in Serbia. Although he used only one word -/sećaš/ (remember) that could point out the difference. On all other versions of the Serbo-Croatian it would be - /sjećaš/. Contrary to that,  his accent is closest one to Croatian version, reminescent, but not quite the thing. His vocabulary doesn't give us any clues, since he doesn't use any words that are different in any of the language versions. Only suspicious word used by him is /kupatilo/ (lit .bathroom), but not because it's not ours, but not commonly used. Most of people use WC (VC), and concerning he is a thug, I highly doubt he would ever use a word /kupatilo/ which is a bit refined word/euphemism. It would be either VC, or /kenjara/ (shithole - shithole room).
One thing, I noticed he speaks in syllables, which would give him away, no-bo-dy-spe-aks-in-sy-lla-bl-es.
And noticed he pronounces few Z's as S's or between those. And his Š's (sh) are softer than we use them. His R's are also English ones, since our R's are like cat's purrrrrRrrrRRs, frontal. So basically, as actor's heritage says, it's Serbian spoken by English person, many of those who have it as native from one parent or both but they don't use it much. Basically, his language is mostly correct and understandable, but definitely nobody speaks quite like that anywhere here, maybe foreign ambassadors. :D So if he was a spy pretending to be a Serbian, he would be sent to prison and to a torturer he portrayed, whos pronunciation would be very convincing.

Also, not bad Serbian for few hours (Mycroft) and few minutes (Gatiss)..understandable, but his character was a spy actually, and his IQ is that of genius, so I guess he knows if you are a spy who is infiltrating, it's not just knowing the words. I know I'm shitting to much about this, sowwy.

Funny thing, Mycroft says: "Znači, prijatelju, sad smo samo ti and I." Notice "and I" at the end. It was supposed to be: "Znači, prijatelju, sad smo samo ti i ja", I guess, but he couldn't remember so he just translated it to English.

Oh, and even if prisons, or should I say dungeons, like those existed around here, guards definitely wouldn't carry a šubara hat on their heads. It's a very rare sight, and mostly at population that is 70+years old. I guess the logic behind that is: Russians wear those hats. Russians are Slavic orthodox. Serbs are Slavic orthodox. Hence, Serbs wear those funny hats too lol. That's prejudice punching us back in our faces. We got prejudice about Russians wearing those hats, west has prejudice  of all slavic/eastern Europeans being same, us being mini-russians or something, HENCE!

Hence, good night, farewell, or as Brad Pit says it - aribaderchi!

 

March 5, 2015 3:30 am  #13


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Thanks for this explanation, random!
(and thanks for the transcript of what Mycroft says http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


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March 5, 2015 10:43 am  #14


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Thank you indeed for that explanation, I love these kind of details. You deduce almost like Sherlock here. ;)

 


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March 5, 2015 11:21 pm  #15


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Hello
this is really interesting indeed. I always feel bad when I read that prejudices make an appearance. I think in the show they try to show something "typical" to make the viewers realise where people are from. But in this case I think it's already clear, so they could just have asked Serbian person to clarify what would be correct to show which isn't outdated or not-quite-from-Serbia etc.
Same happens in TBB, I mean, it's also set in China town for parts, so there is also no need to feed clichés... viewers know what they are to expect... I would think.
With all the other tiny details they fuss about, I wonder why they are rather careless with it. Although maybe it doesn't matter so much for their storytelling and that's why.

oh, and I think Mycroft says the "...and I" because it's the transition mark for the viewers, so they know there's something odd and that he is not what he seems to be.
 

Last edited by Whisky (March 5, 2015 11:25 pm)


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December 2, 2015 5:04 pm  #16


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

random1895 wrote:

Sorry for necro. I was just rewatching the series, and I'm at the "Empty Hearse" now, and I laughed so hard (again) at the part where they spoke Serbian, so I searched a bit to see if any comments on that, and this is only topic I've found.  Just wanted to give a comment. I am from Republika Srpska for the record, since OP said it might be our accent. Just to point out: Serbo-Croatian (SCBM) = Serbian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosniak/Bosnian language, all mutually intelligible almost 99.99% - vocabulary, accent, and pronounciation differences might come from different regions within the same country, not necessarily from other country or their language version.
I am going to talk about the Tomi May's (actor that acts Serbian torturer) Serbian. His Serbian is pretty inconsistent. He uses ekavijan pronunciation. It is almost exclusively used in Serbia. Although he used only one word -/sećaš/ (remember) that could point out the difference. On all other versions of the Serbo-Croatian it would be - /sjećaš/. Contrary to that,  his accent is closest one to Croatian version, reminescent, but not quite the thing. His vocabulary doesn't give us any clues, since he doesn't use any words that are different in any of the language versions. Only suspicious word used by him is /kupatilo/ (lit .bathroom), but not because it's not ours, but not commonly used. Most of people use WC (VC), and concerning he is a thug, I highly doubt he would ever use a word /kupatilo/ which is a bit refined word/euphemism. It would be either VC, or /kenjara/ (shithole - shithole room).
One thing, I noticed he speaks in syllables, which would give him away, no-bo-dy-spe-aks-in-sy-lla-bl-es.
And noticed he pronounces few Z's as S's or between those. And his Š's (sh) are softer than we use them. His R's are also English ones, since our R's are like cat's purrrrrRrrrRRs, frontal. So basically, as actor's heritage says, it's Serbian spoken by English person, many of those who have it as native from one parent or both but they don't use it much. Basically, his language is mostly correct and understandable, but definitely nobody speaks quite like that anywhere here, maybe foreign ambassadors. :D So if he was a spy pretending to be a Serbian, he would be sent to prison and to a torturer he portrayed, whos pronunciation would be very convincing.

Also, not bad Serbian for few hours (Mycroft) and few minutes (Gatiss)..understandable, but his character was a spy actually, and his IQ is that of genius, so I guess he knows if you are a spy who is infiltrating, it's not just knowing the words. I know I'm shitting to much about this, sowwy.

Funny thing, Mycroft says: "Znači, prijatelju, sad smo samo ti and I." Notice "and I" at the end. It was supposed to be: "Znači, prijatelju, sad smo samo ti i ja", I guess, but he couldn't remember so he just translated it to English.

Oh, and even if prisons, or should I say dungeons, like those existed around here, guards definitely wouldn't carry a šubara hat on their heads. It's a very rare sight, and mostly at population that is 70+years old. I guess the logic behind that is: Russians wear those hats. Russians are Slavic orthodox. Serbs are Slavic orthodox. Hence, Serbs wear those funny hats too lol. That's prejudice punching us back in our faces. We got prejudice about Russians wearing those hats, west has prejudice  of all slavic/eastern Europeans being same, us being mini-russians or something, HENCE!

Hence, good night, farewell, or as Brad Pit says it - aribaderchi!

I'm from Serbia and I think they just sound like English people talking serbian, but from all I heard as an attempt this is actually okay and not so bad (when John Travolta did it I only knew what he sad beacuse of english titles). The accent reminds me a little of the accent that mother of my friend has, beacuse she has been raised in Kosovo, but not something that central Serbia and Belgrade will use. My first guess would be bosnian, but I'm not so sure after your comment, we probably don't see a lot of differences cuz diferent just sounds - diferent.
Also word kupatilo (bathroom) is frequently used, I used it as much as WC if not more, and kenjara is a word you wouldn't like to use, it sounds very rude, but I guess maybe it's common where you are from.
Anyway, could be better but still enough worked done. And I need to say when Mycroft said "Listen: do you have any idea what it was like, Sherlock, going ‘under cover’, smuggling my way into their ranks like that? The noise; the people?" it kinda broke my serbian heart, we're not so bad.
and if you want something translated, ask (couple of years late, but still came)
 

Last edited by angelane (December 2, 2015 5:10 pm)

 

December 2, 2015 5:11 pm  #17


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

I did a quick goole on the actor playing the Serbian torturer, and he is actually from Serbian-English heritage. So I reckon he would know Serbian, that would make it "odd" that he doesn't speak it correctly?

(Also, for Mycroft talking about the horrors of going undercover, I don't think he was talking about Serbians being particularly noisy and annoying. More that goldfish in general, and especially the nuisance that is a gang of thugs, would be annoying for him no matter their nationality).


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December 2, 2015 5:36 pm  #18


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

As for the šubara hat: I have seen Mark wearing one on set, so maybe he just contributed his favorite head warmer to the show.  http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png


About the languages (German from TBB and MHR) I wrote somewhere already, don't remember where though... It is an old problem and I always get annoyed by it. I understand that it might be hard for the leading actor to learn to speak like a native speaker, but I don't understand why it seems to be so hard to find native speakers for small parts, or even make a dubbing with them.
 

 

December 2, 2015 5:48 pm  #19


Re: Sherlock from Serbia

Or just get a language counsellor to phrase the dialogue correctly and teach the actors how to say it. I can understand actors not being able to speak it fluently in such a short time, but at the very least an interpreter could be used to make sure that the syntax and phrasing is correct.


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