BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

February 5, 2014 10:36 pm  #121

Re: A.G.R.A

Ormond Sacker wrote:

@Willow. Could you please explain what you think, or rather what you think that Sherlock think a country is? Since you keep saying he is a patriot and that he loves his country you obivously know.

Actually, I suspect that Sherlock probably has fairly straightforward views on what a country is; he would regard postmodern analysis of cultural identity as being even more useless than knowing that the earth goes round the sun. You are trying to shoehorn your beliefs into his brain when he spends much of his time dumping stuff he deems useless out of his brain; it's both easy and rational to define a country in terms of its physical borders, and the people who hale from within those borders, and Sherlock is a rational person.

For example, I am indisputably English and I was born in the Egyptian desert, where only the Bedouin and the military pitch their tents, or place their buildings; ACD would have had no difficulty slotting me into my place in English society. Of course the RAF did not exist when Sherlock first played the game, but he and the original Dr Watson would have been familiar with women like my mother who believed, until her dying day, that no matter where she was she merely had to speak slowly and clearly and people would understand her; the truly infuriating thing about that was the fact that more often than not she was right.

Sherlock is the quintessential Londoner, and London has always been a multicultural city; now more than ever it includes people from vastly different places and backgrounds. The overwhelming majority of those people have a great deal to lose if parliamentary democracy is destroyed, whether by blowing up their elected representatives or subverting their representatives by blackmail; I am confident that Sherlock agrees with that view. He wasn't just trying to solve puzzles because it amuses him to solve puzzles; he does believe that he is acting in the national interest in preventing those events. The fact that there is also an international benefit in maintaining a democratic form of government here, even with all its imperfections, is undoubtedly icing on the cake.

It is, in my view, irrational to suggest that the plots of two of the three episodes this season just accidentally happened to be about the defence of the realm; the third provides us with our contrasting characters of Sholto and Mary. Sholto's life is threatened because of his actions as an army officer, which John assures us were honourable; Mary's life is threatened because of her actions as an assassin, which she assures us were dishonourable. (There can be no other logical explanation for her statement that John would cease to love her if he knew what she had done.) Sholto is in semi-hiding, Mary has a flimsy new identity; Sholto carries the obvious physical scars of his military service, plus the hidden emotional scars which lead him to believe that his life should come to an end, whereas Mary is convinced that she could and should kill anyone who stands between her and what she wants.

I don't think the juxtaposition of those two characters is an accident either; Moftiss are too good to do things accidentally. Sherlock is able to talk Sholto out of his room and into medical care because he appeals to Sholto's affection and respect for John; he tries to do the same thing to Mary in CAM's office and gets a bullet in his chest. AGRA turns out to be entirely empty of treasure, as it did in the original story, and Sherlock goes into exile from the place and the people he loves most, though, as things turned out, we didn't get the chance to miss him for very long


May 3, 2014 1:44 pm  #122

Re: A.G.R.A

Recently had a thought on the a g r a memory stick...that lead a few places..

In cannon once the agra treasure was found became unobtainable. .lost at sea.

Could Marys memory stick be a similar kind of thing..she asked John not to open / read it in front of her..why.?
Could the memory stick have a trap on it ( online database ) that alerted Mary ( via a text ) if it was found or accessed....hence Mary could also become lost at sea.

Mary needed to be away from John and Sherlock to vanish on the run again...if they read it and she got that text alert...

In the very short and limited time Sherlock escaped the hospital..he had two objectives..make himself and John safe from Mary. Exposing Mary to John made Sherlock safe ish..and convincing Mary John would stay with her made John safe.

The Appledore visit at xmas seemed to be a deal to get w/e data Magnusson had on Mary..yet tht wasn't really important or a threat anymore..John already more it must have been about the vault info..or maybe Moriarty info..once that possibility ended..they needed a plan B..they didn't need Magnusson...but they did need to keep playing Mary.

Maybe in the time apart...when they had a lot more time...that agra trap was suspected..and surely would be if Sherlock or Mycroft examined it...thats why John had to destroy it..pretending he hadn't read order to prevent Mary vanishing..afterall she would be almost impossible to track..and John has no legal claim/rights over her or the baby.

Full names seem to be a getting caught theme in SO3..Hamish exposed the Mayfly man...a g r a..would expose Mary...and at the end we get Sherlock exposing his full name to John....a vatican cameos type message that another trap / expose was being sprung..that he didn't need to be too depressed..the game is not over yet...

If so Johns prepared words ....your future is my privilege can also be taken as a threat...or a promise...

Last edited by lil (May 3, 2014 1:57 pm)


May 3, 2014 2:18 pm  #123

Re: A.G.R.A

Interesting point about the significance of the full names.
I was trying to work out if Sherlock was trying to tell John something when he told him his complete name - if the initials spelt out a message.

"And in the end,
The Love you take
Is equal to the Love you make"
                                             The Beatles

October 5, 2014 8:59 pm  #124

Re: A.G.R.A

What do we say to this?
Today I spotted AGRA in Cyrillic letters on Magnussen's Appeldore file about Mary.
Sorry for the bad quality, but I had to take a photo from the bluray on the TV screen with my mobile.


John: "Have you spoken to Mycroft, Molly, uh, anyone?"
Mrs Hudson: "They don’t matter. You do."



October 5, 2014 9:06 pm  #125

Re: A.G.R.A

I guess it's not surprising that Magnussen knows about AGRA... but why in Cyrillic letters? Does this tell us something about Mary's past? If so, what could it be?
Very well spotted, tobe!

"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"


October 5, 2014 9:40 pm  #126

Re: A.G.R.A

Can anybody here decipher the rest of it? 

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.

October 5, 2014 9:41 pm  #127

Re: A.G.R.A

Oh, very interesting!  Well spotted!


October 6, 2014 6:00 am  #128

Re: A.G.R.A

There is still the question of whether Mary gambled John wouldn't read the data stick and if AGRA really are her initials.


October 6, 2014 6:06 am  #129

Re: A.G.R.A

Warnings....following this up leads to treasure...but also's a bit like walking the plank.


October 6, 2014 9:37 am  #130

Re: A.G.R.A

Treasure.... The treasures of agra.
Spoiler? What spoiler?

Last edited by Mattlocked (October 6, 2014 9:38 am)


"After all this time?" "Always."
Good bye, Lord Rickman of the Alan

October 11, 2014 9:57 am  #131

Re: A.G.R.A

I asked a russian native speaker. I'm aware it's always a problem with translation esp. when several languages are involved, but here is what she said:

... A.G.R.A gave a report/presentation ... (next likely: about the quality)
... illegal preparation ...
... several persons are very sure ...
... if anybody ....

She added that she thinks of A.G.R.A as a company,
and that the report is in her opinion about something really bad or really exciting 

Thanks, tobe, for the new screenshots. They were very helpful! 

Last edited by Harriet (October 11, 2014 2:27 pm)

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.

October 11, 2014 10:39 am  #132

Re: A.G.R.A

Wow. . Not sure if I understand everything but I'm impressed yet again how thoroughly every tiny little detail is chosen and set in scene. I would never have spotted that. Kudos tobe and Harriet.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.

"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.


October 11, 2014 11:31 am  #133

Re: A.G.R.A

Bravo! And to me it shows that the creators expect at least part of the audience to be so thorough, elso they would not go to such lengths to hide hints and allusions in the films. 

"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)


April 16, 2016 11:30 am  #134

Re: A.G.R.A

Is the person who wrote the letter in TGG related to A.G.R.A? Has the handwriting Russian background?

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.

April 16, 2016 12:05 pm  #135

Re: A.G.R.A



April 16, 2016 2:36 pm  #136

Re: A.G.R.A

NotYourHousekeeperDear wrote:

Hmm just had a little thought.  I think Mary's real name may just turn out to be very important . In SoT John 's full  name John Hamish Watson turns out to be the key to Sherlock figuring out the Mayfly man and his connection to the wedding.  Then. We have sherlock giving John his full four part name in his 'final' conversation with him. Is this some sort of hint to John that Mary's real name, the decoding of AGRA is crucial ?

Seems like it.
Sherlock is full of parallels, so...yeah. I think you're right.
Of course it has to be a nod to Canon, but I'll bet anything (even if I'm not the betting sort) that there's something more to it.

I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat


April 16, 2016 2:39 pm  #137

Re: A.G.R.A

Her real surname could be Anderson...tee hee!


April 16, 2016 2:49 pm  #138

Re: A.G.R.A

Swanpride wrote:

If Mary's past catches up to her, Sherlock's sacrifice will be mood.

He did go to fight off Moriarty's network, he's bound to have already killed (I suppose you were talking about the sacrifice of killing someone?).

I'd be lost without my blogger.
"It’s not a ‘gang’ show, it’s the Sherlock and John show. It’s about developing their characters and their relationship, and the characters drawn into their orbit.”  Steven Moffat


April 16, 2016 6:36 pm  #139

Re: A.G.R.A

On the other hand, rightly or wrongly (OK, wrongly) he has rid the world of a dangerous, evil and untouchable blackmailer whom he despised.   Maybe he would still think there is value in that.   I'm reminded of Moftiss saying that they believed Holmes killed Milverton, so saw the character as doing it even without the motivation of protecting Mary. 


April 16, 2016 6:37 pm  #140

Re: A.G.R.A

Quite so.
Plus, I really think he did it for John...making Mary safe would please John.


Board footera


Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum