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January 16, 2014 1:16 am  #21


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Willow wrote:

Mrs. Watson wrote:

I'm listening to the Empire podcast and Mofftiss said that Mary entered through a window (TBB style) because she is a highly trianed agent.

 

And, as we all know, Mofftiss never lie about Sherlock 

So, since we know that they do lie about it we revert to the real world.

Skyscrapers are sealed;  there are a myriad reasons for this, including cutting down on the number of people jumping out of them and landing on some poor person wandering along wondering what to buy for supper.

But mostly the windows are sealed because the massively expensive air conditioning/ heating doesn't work if someone opens one, so the architects and builders make sure that there are no windows which can actually open.

So we are back to Janine letting her in...

That is completely true... in the REAL world but it make no sense in the story. Mary was counting in killing Magnussen but she didn't kill Janine or the security guy. If Sherlock hasn't arrived she would have killed him and there would have been a witness who knew her by name (and knew where she lives) who would have told the police that she was there. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

January 16, 2014 1:59 am  #22


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Mrs. Watson wrote:

Willow wrote:

Mrs. Watson wrote:

I'm listening to the Empire podcast and Mofftiss said that Mary entered through a window (TBB style) because she is a highly trianed agent.

 

And, as we all know, Mofftiss never lie about Sherlock 

So, since we know that they do lie about it we revert to the real world.

Skyscrapers are sealed;  there are a myriad reasons for this, including cutting down on the number of people jumping out of them and landing on some poor person wandering along wondering what to buy for supper.

But mostly the windows are sealed because the massively expensive air conditioning/ heating doesn't work if someone opens one, so the architects and builders make sure that there are no windows which can actually open.

So we are back to Janine letting her in...

That is completely true... in the REAL world but it make no sense in the story. Mary was counting in killing Magnussen but she didn't kill Janine or the security guy. If Sherlock hasn't arrived she would have killed him and there would have been a witness who knew her by name (and knew where she lives) who would have told the police that she was there. It makes absolutely no sense.

Well, this started out by my asking why is Janine not dead? 

After all, why leave a witness who can identify you when you have already shot one man and are prepared to kill not only him but anyone who jeopardises your relationship with John? Mary seems not far off a bunny boiler in her obsession with John; what will happen to the next person to do something which Mary thinks interferes in her relationship with John?

What if the next person to interfere with Mary's relationship with John is the baby? 

About the only way that Janine surviving can be logically explained is if Janine was in on it all along with Mary; possibly they both hold a dead mans switch over each other, or some other way of balancing the scales. But otherwise, if Mary was truthful when she said that she would stop at nothing to prevent John from finding out the truth about her, Janine would have been dead...
 

     Thread Starter
 

January 16, 2014 2:58 am  #23


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Mary is a trained secret agent/assassin. She was dressed in a manner to hide her identity. She should be more than capable to enter a building and disable people without revealing herself.

 

January 16, 2014 1:50 pm  #24


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Moftiss didn't lie about this, they worked out a way in which she would climb through a window, even filmed it, and then cut it because they thought it was boring. 

 

January 16, 2014 2:48 pm  #25


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Swanpride wrote:

In the interview they said that she scaled the building.

Honestly, can we keep her? Just imagine what Sherlock would be able to do if he had someone with her abilitities available.

 
Well, Sherlock already has access to the finest agents the country has to offer; his brother is their boss.  I'm sure that Mycroft would lend him one if he asked nicely 

And whilst Moftiss are having fun, as they always do, they filmed a number of scenes which were specifically red herrings to deliberately confuse the people watching the filming.

They also deliberately lie about what is happening; I love the straight-faced way in which they can dismiss someone climbing a skyscraper, managing to find a window which opens, and slithering through it as 'boring'. Impossible yes, boring no.

This is not in any way a criticism of Moftiss; they do it to make the show more interesting for us, and for them.

But Mary's character is not Mrs Smith; John is not another assassin working for a different agency. What works for Mr and Mrs Smith isn't what works for Dr and Mrs Watson; I doubt that there is anything which works for them.

If Mary's obsessive love for John is actually real then people are going to get hurt because she is deep in bunny boiler territory. She has come very close to killing Sherlock and yet all is apparently forgiven. She now has carte Blanche to do anything she wants with the justification of 'I did it because I love him so much'.

This is not a recipe for a happy ending...

     Thread Starter
 

January 16, 2014 10:02 pm  #26


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

No, they didn't film it as a red herring, they filmed it as part of the narrative and then dropped it. 

They don't lie as much as you seem to think, they only lie about future plot developments. 

 

May 23, 2015 12:59 pm  #27


Re: Why is Janine not dead?

Willow wrote:

.....
The simplest explanation is that Mary was lying about her reasons for shooting Sherlock; ....
 

Did she even mention her reasons? For me it was very simple: Mary said "don't move or I'll shoot" (or something to that effect), Sherlock says "no, you won't" and begins to make a step towards her, Mary shoots. (Doesn't everybody know by now to not make any threatening gestures when somebody points a gun at you?)

Willow wrote:

... All cards and all keys will have an elaborate tracking system which enables them to be traced at all times; no-one, but no-one, can obtain copies or clones ....
 

Thanks for your explanation! Unfortunately, the more I learn about reality, the more fantastic Moftiss's creation becomes... According to what you write, Sherlock shouldn't really be able to use "his" key card either, should he? If he nicked it "yesterday" - wouldn't the employee have noticed in the meantime and raised the alarm? (What does happen when one loses a key card? Is there a way to somehow cancel the card at a distance?)

Willow wrote:

.....I love the straight-faced way in which they can dismiss someone climbing a skyscraper, managing to find a window which opens, and slithering through it as 'boring'. Impossible yes, boring no... 

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol showed us how interesting that can be - and that's probably how Mary did it. Only she got a functioning version of the gloves http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/tongue.png
(which is why the climb was too boring to show). But that only ocurred to me just now (and I have difficulty believing it - though A.G.R.A being an old friend of Ethan Hawke's is not any more crazy than many other things here. Hmmm...), I've wondered ever since watching the episode for the first time how Mary could have found a way to get into CAM's office that Sherlock did not find - without M.I. stuff, it shouldn't be possible.

Willow wrote:

...Well, Sherlock already has access to the finest agents the country has to offer; his brother is their boss.  I'm sure that Mycroft would lend him one if he asked nicely...

I'm convinced that Sherlock would prefer to work with Mary (assuming she does not turn out to be "evil" - so far for me she's a female version of Jason Bourne) rather than ask Mycroft nicely for anything. I'm pretty sure we'll never get to see the cooperation on screen, but I hope there's some stories around - I can see endless possibilities...

(As for the OP's question: For me Janine doesn't know about Mary's break in, she gets hit from behind and never suspects Mary's involvement. Though her working together with Mary could be a possibility. That might explain why she lets CAM flick her face - which would normally imply that he has some sort of hold over her. But then that hold obviously was not enough to stop Janine from from selling her stories to CAM's competitors - does that make any sense to anybody?)

 

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