BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » What Sherlock did...

onlydreamieverhave · January 15, 2014 10:30 pm

Did we see CAMs body? Can't remember and forgot to record? (Anyone?) Whole thing was a bit odd to me, why were they not searched when they arrived at appledore? Felt like the murder was faked to me..the information in CAMS head would make his faked death and abduction worth while from mycrofts position (particularly when the alternative could only have been attempt number 2 on his life by mary) confirming all the info was in his head gives mycroft a green light to extract CAM to a locked bunker for use by the british government IMO. Meanwhile SH keeps his vow to protect Mary and john by taking the rap for murder and saving them from having to tackle CAM themselves (and presumably, actually killing him)...or not whatever!

sirlockofthesher · January 15, 2014 10:33 pm

^ interesting point. You see the body flailing backwards.

anjaH_alias · January 15, 2014 10:33 pm

onlydreamieverhave wrote:
Did we see CAMs body? Can't remember and forgot to record? (Anyone?) Whole thing was a bit odd to me, why were they not searched when they arrived at appledore? Felt like the murder was faked to me..the information in CAMS head would make his faked death and abduction worth while from mycrofts position (particularly when the alternative could only have been attempt number 2 on his life by mary) confirming all the info was in his head gives mycroft a green light to extract CAM to a locked bunker for use by the british government IMO. Meanwhile SH keeps his vow to protect Mary and john by taking the rap for murder and saving them from having to tackle CAM themselves (and presumably, actually killing him)...or not whatever!

I have a deja-vu . No, I don´t want that, spoils my tragedy theory!

Mary Me · January 15, 2014 10:38 pm

onlydreamieverhave wrote:
Did we see CAMs body? Can't remember and forgot to record? (Anyone?) Whole thing was a bit odd to me, why were they not searched when they arrived at appledore? Felt like the murder was faked to me..the information in CAMS head would make his faked death and abduction worth while from mycrofts position (particularly when the alternative could only have been attempt number 2 on his life by mary) confirming all the info was in his head gives mycroft a green light to extract CAM to a locked bunker for use by the british government IMO. Meanwhile SH keeps his vow to protect Mary and john by taking the rap for murder and saving them from having to tackle CAM themselves (and presumably, actually killing him)...or not whatever!

We should all stop discussing on ethics and concentrate on whether CAM is actually dead or not. That's a lot less disturbing.

shezza · January 15, 2014 10:40 pm

^ What is disturbing about discussing on ethics?

sherlocked · January 15, 2014 10:40 pm

onlydreamieverhave wrote:
Did we see CAMs body? Can't remember and forgot to record? (Anyone?) Whole thing was a bit odd to me, why were they not searched when they arrived at appledore? Felt like the murder was faked to me..the information in CAMS head would make his faked death and abduction worth while from mycrofts position (particularly when the alternative could only have been attempt number 2 on his life by mary) confirming all the info was in his head gives mycroft a green light to extract CAM to a locked bunker for use by the british government IMO. Meanwhile SH keeps his vow to protect Mary and john by taking the rap for murder and saving them from having to tackle CAM themselves (and presumably, actually killing him)...or not whatever!

I really wished, they would've made at least CAM's death a little more unequivocal. Like seeing Sherlock shooting him in a rage in close up, and seeing CAM's surprised face, since he didn't see that coming. Would've had more emotional impact, too.
The number of persons, who may or may not have faked their death, or have something fishy about their death, is large enough as it is. I really don't want to worry about CAM being really dead, or really being killed by someone else, or just having got incapacitated by Sherlock, so that Mycroft can nurse him back to health in a secret vault, in order to question him... and confront him with Moriarty, who is locked away in that secret vault of Mycroft as well, together with Irene Adler.... actually I start to see immense possibilities here, lol!

Last edited by sherlocked (January 15, 2014 10:44 pm)

Mary Me · January 15, 2014 10:42 pm

shezza wrote:
^ What is disturbing about discussing on ethics?

Can't tell. It's getting too personal for me. In this case it takes things for me on a level where I don't want to be.

sherlocked · January 15, 2014 10:42 pm

shezza wrote:
^ What is disturbing about discussing on ethics?

There's nothing disturbing about that discussion. It's very interesting.
Maybe CAM's body deserves another thread

Mary Me · January 15, 2014 10:44 pm

sherlocked wrote:
onlydreamieverhave wrote:
Did we see CAMs body? Can't remember and forgot to record? (Anyone?) Whole thing was a bit odd to me, why were they not searched when they arrived at appledore? Felt like the murder was faked to me..the information in CAMS head would make his faked death and abduction worth while from mycrofts position (particularly when the alternative could only have been attempt number 2 on his life by mary) confirming all the info was in his head gives mycroft a green light to extract CAM to a locked bunker for use by the british government IMO. Meanwhile SH keeps his vow to protect Mary and john by taking the rap for murder and saving them from having to tackle CAM themselves (and presumably, actually killing him)...or not whatever!
I really wished, they would've made at least CAM's death a little more unequivocal. Like seeing Sherlock shooting him in a rage in close up, and seeing CAM's surprised face, since he didn't see that coming. Would've had more emotional impact, too.
The number of persons, who may or may not have faked theyr death, or have something fishy about their death, is large enough as it is. I really don't to worry about CAM being really dead, or really being killed by someone else, or just having got incapacitated by Sherlock, so that Mycroft can nurse him back to health in a secret vault, in order to question him... and confront him with Moriarty, who is locked away in that secret vault of Mycroft as well, together with Irene Adler.... actually I start to see immense possibilities here, lol!

Now that you mention it I definitely see Irene Adler involved!

However, I really don't doubt that Sherlock shoot CAM dead. That's how it is.

SolarSystem · January 15, 2014 10:44 pm

sirlockofthesher wrote:
I think in the future with Sherlock, it won't be necessarily how do I get rid of emotions to come back to cold and calculating but how do I use emotions to make be better at calculating the world around me.

I certainly hope so. I definitely don't want them to go back to the Sherlock we know from S1 and S2, and I think that isn't even possible. He will have to learn to deal with those emotions, not to get rid of them again. Going back to 'cold and calculating' would be a huge disappointment.

shezza · January 15, 2014 10:48 pm

I'm not really sold on this new Sherlock, to be honest.

And CAM is #dead guys.

sherlocked · January 15, 2014 10:53 pm

shezza wrote:
I'm not really sold on this new Sherlock, to be honest.

And CAM is #dead guys.

Yes, CAM is dead, and if it is just for artistic reasons. They can't pull this Lazarus stunt on too many people. It gets really tiresome, if you can never be sure, that someone is dead. But it IS strange, that they show the shooting in such a roundabout way, as if they wanted to sow doubts about what we saw. But that's really a question for another thread...

Willow · January 15, 2014 10:57 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Very good explanation, Willow.

That is kind of you!

shezza · January 15, 2014 10:59 pm

Well there's no need to spoon feed everything to the audience. They showed it in a elegant way. Everybody's reactions are proof enough, imo.

sherlocked · January 15, 2014 11:05 pm

shezza wrote:
Well there's no need to spoon feed everything to the audience. They showed it in a elegant way. Everybody's reactions are proof enough, imo.

I didn't think, it was elegant. No need to show gore, but the way it was filmed, it considerably lessened the emotional impact, IMO. And it reminded me of many cheap films, where the baddie is killed in the end in such a dubious fashion, that you simply know, they hold the door open for a return. I really don't doubt, that CAM is dead. I just wish, it was shown in another fashion.
Ok, but I'm off this can of worms, since it really doesn't belong here....

Last edited by sherlocked (January 15, 2014 11:09 pm)

sj4iy · January 15, 2014 11:14 pm

shezza wrote:
I'm not really sold on this new Sherlock, to be honest.

And CAM is #dead guys.

I honestly don't think he's 'new'. He's always had emotions from episode 1. He wasn't a robot. He laughed, got excited, was angry...how was he ever 'emotionless'? The only difference between then and now is that now he actually cares about other people. Suddenly he's not as selfish. The only way for him to be the same as he was before would be for him to never care for anyone...even John.

sj4iy · January 15, 2014 11:18 pm

sherlocked wrote:
shezza wrote:
Well there's no need to spoon feed everything to the audience. They showed it in a elegant way. Everybody's reactions are proof enough, imo.
I didn't think, it was elegant. No need to show gore, but the way it was filmed, it considerably lessened the emotional impact, IMO. And it reminded me of many cheap films, where the baddie is killed in the end in such a dubious fashion, that you simply know, they hold the door open for a return. I really don't doubt, that CAM is dead. I just wish, it was shown in another fashion.
Ok, but I'm off this can of worms, since it really doesn't belong here....

There was nothing dubious about it. Sherlock pulled a gun on CAM and shot him in the head. It was witnessed by a military task force, John and his own brother. Surely one of them would have said "Well, maybe we shouldn't exile him since he didn't actually kill the guy" if there were any chance of Magnussen coming back.

It's not at all in doubt. Magnussen is dead.

onlydreamieverhave · January 15, 2014 11:32 pm

sherlocked wrote:
shezza wrote:
Well there's no need to spoon feed everything to the audience. They showed it in a elegant way. Everybody's reactions are proof enough, imo.
I didn't think, it was elegant. No need to show gore, but the way it was filmed, it considerably lessened the emotional impact, IMO. And it reminded me of many cheap films, where the baddie is killed in the end in such a dubious fashion, that you simply know, they hold the door open for a return. I really don't doubt, that CAM is dead. I just wish, it was shown in another fashion.
Ok, but I'm off this can of worms, since it really doesn't belong here....

Why doesn't it belong here? As i see it the question - why did sherlock do what he did? has two possible answers. The first, to protect mary and john leads u into your ethical debate....the second (my answer) to stop mary from trying to kill CAM again leads down another path but is still as entirely relevant to the title of the post.. What was it he said "John, tell mary she's safe now". What u saw folks was a british intelligence asset (CAM) being extracted for interrogation under the nose of his own protection services and an american "wet ops" agent Mary.. Shit be real folks CAM aint dead and god I do miss spooks!

sherlocked · January 16, 2014 12:03 am

onlydreamieverhave wrote:
sherlocked wrote:
shezza wrote:
Well there's no need to spoon feed everything to the audience. They showed it in a elegant way. Everybody's reactions are proof enough, imo.
I didn't think, it was elegant. No need to show gore, but the way it was filmed, it considerably lessened the emotional impact, IMO. And it reminded me of many cheap films, where the baddie is killed in the end in such a dubious fashion, that you simply know, they hold the door open for a return. I really don't doubt, that CAM is dead. I just wish, it was shown in another fashion.
Ok, but I'm off this can of worms, since it really doesn't belong here....
Why doesn't it belong here? As i see it the question - why did sherlock do what he did? has two possible answers. The first, to protect mary and john leads u into your ethical debate....the second (my answer) to stop mary from trying to kill CAM again leads down another path but is still as entirely relevant to the title of the post.. What was it he said "John, tell mary she's safe now". What u saw folks was a british intelligence asset (CAM) being extracted for interrogation under the nose of his own protection services and an american "wet ops" agent Mary.. Shit be real folks CAM aint dead and god I do miss spooks!

Sorry, you're right: the way, you put it, it indeed does belong here, if we agree with your opinion or not.
I'm just so tired of all those Schroedinger's cat people in this show, who are dead... or maybe not... or maybe dead and undead at the same time.... that's Schroedinger's cat, btw....

Last edited by sherlocked (January 16, 2014 12:05 am)

onlydreamieverhave · January 16, 2014 12:36 am

Isn't that what the show is about though? "As always john You look but you dont see". Its a show where in all probability what your eyes tell u is not the truth, the idea is to look for the clues as to what is really happening...why they weren't searched at appledore, why we see though CAMs eyes as an electronic read out,...perhaps I am wrong but personally I think "sherlock the murderer" is about as likely as mary berry emptying out a packet of hobknobs onto a plate on this years great british bake off.